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Like you I abhor racial stereotyping, but the facts are the facts and there are things that can be pointed at within black culture that help support the on going issues, like the glorification of the thug/gang culture, I know this affects white youths as well but I am sure I read that black youths are more likely to become involved in gang culture, perhaps someone should be looking at why 70% of black babies are born outside of marriage. This insistence on giving these mothers a cute name like "baby momma" does no good, they are unmarried mothers, single parents, they don't exist as someone else's idealized "baby momma". The term seems to be used to cover up the wrong of the father and mother, by the time the kid is 10 years old he/she has a good chance to have a load of half brothers or sisters or maybe mom is with a new guy who does not want someone else's kid around, so they end up bringing themselves up, prime time to get "adopted" by a street family, a gang. Then the cycle repeats.
Several things wrong with this post and the majority of what this thread has become. The two biggest ones are that:
a) People are relying on tropes they hear in mainstream media without any citations or indication they've even done the simplest amount of research on the matter.
b) Folks are conveniently ignoring the overall American culture in which all of this is prevalent, particularly among white Americans.
If either of these two were done, this thread would not have become a race issue at all, but an observation of what's wrong with American society in general. The fact that it did become racialized proves just how much racism is a very active feature in American society.
The facts:
- Crime is a function of poverty, and more African-Americans are poor. Most blacks are in jail for non-violent crime such as drug possession and property crime. Looking outside of criminal activity related to socio-eco status, Black people who murder represent two-one hundreths of one percent of the total population of Black people. This is far from a "culture" of thugness in the black community.
- the 70% out-of-wedlock birthrate is high because the number of married black couples having children has decreased. Making the percentage of those who have babies out of wedlock higher. Should out-of-wedlock births be addressed? Absolutely. But considering that out-of wedlock births became an issue only in the 70s with the War on Drugs (as prior to that around 70% of black kids were born into married families) as young black men were being disproportionately targeted and sent to prison for drug use (even though black teens have historically used less of every type of drugs than whites) more often than any other ethnic group, I would say it's less of a culture and more of a consequence.
- Actual research on black families shows that family structure has less of an outcome on child success than parenting and economic resources. Further, that 70% belies the fact that while black children may be born to a single mother the majority of black kids are raised by two parents. If you count the number of black kids who are raised into a network of extended family and family friends, you'll find also that the majority of black kids are raised with large support networks (including religious istitutions like church) as well, which is one reason some researchers believe black kids are less likely to engage in risky behavior than white kids.
If you looked at actual facts, you would then understand and know why the vast majority of black people are not criminal, the vast majority are not thugs, and large amounts of black kids seek higher education despite their socio-economic circumstances.
If you looked at actual facts, you would not let an opinion based on snippets of CNN specials or FOX News delude you into thinking black people are dysfuctional. On the contrary, Blacks are among the most hard-working, striving, optimistic people you can find even after experiencing 300 years of legal slavery, dealing with 100 years of discrimination and being told we were everything but what we really are, and continuing to push forward despite overt and institutional racism that remains very much in tact in this country.
I will be damned if I hear another person say some drivel that is based on a skewed reality. If you want to explore violence, explore why all these white men are killing their wives in recent months or thousands of others in serial killings and school shootings in the past decade, ask why in their dealings with virtually every foreign country in the modern age they all led to the death and destruction of millions of people. Forget a "thug" robbing someone for $10 or the rare instance a black person kills someone, I'd rather that than someone robbing an entire region of their natural resources or thousands of people on Wall Street or killing off an entire f-ing race. If you really want to talk about violence and crime, I would suggest you research your own people first before you start passing ish this way. GTFOH.
Last edited by bizchick86; 08-25-2009 at 03:10 PM..
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,089,277 times
Reputation: 3995
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizchick86
b) Folks are conveniently ignoring the overall American culture in which all of this is prevalent, particularly among white Americans.
Having lived in Suburban MN, rural SD, rural MN, and now suburban GA, I have to reject the notion that the US has a single common white American culture.
That said, however...
Quote:
If you looked at actual facts, you would then understand and know why the vast majority of black people are not criminal, the vast majority are not thugs, and large amounts of black kids seek higher education despite their socio-economic circumstances.
As far as I know, the above is absolutely correct. The problem isn't really "black America", if such a thing exists, but rather a set of irresponsible individuals who I believe need to be dealt with.
In some areas of the Atlanta metro, it seems the lack of police presence is a huge factor. Try some of the same crap in other metros and see how far it gets you...
Location: Originally from Cali relocated to Inman Park/Old 4th Ward/Westside Atlanta
987 posts, read 3,912,112 times
Reputation: 352
Ethered!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizchick86
Several things wrong with this post and the majority of what this thread has become. The two biggest ones are that:
a) People are relying on tropes they hear in mainstream media without any citations or indication they've even done the simplest amount of research on the matter.
b) Folks are conveniently ignoring the overall American culture in which all of this is prevalent, particularly among white Americans.
If either of these two were done, this thread would not have become a race issue at all, but an observation of what's wrong with American society in general. The fact that it did become racialized proves just how much racism is a very active feature in American society.
The facts:
- Crime is a function of poverty, and more African-Americans are poor. Most blacks are in jail for non-violent crime such as drug possession and property crime. Looking outside of criminal activity related to socio-eco status, Black people who murder represent two-one hundreths of one percent of the total population of Black people. This is far from a "culture" of thugness in the black community.
- the 70% out-of-wedlock birthrate is high because the number of married black couples having children has decreased. Making the percentage of those who have babies out of wedlock higher. Should out-of-wedlock births be addressed? Absolutely. But considering that out-of wedlock births became an issue only in the 70s with the War on Drugs (as prior to that around 70% of black kids were born into married families) as young black men were being disproportionately targeted and sent to prison for drug use (even though black teens have historically used less of every type of drugs than whites) more often than any other ethnic group, I would say it's less of a culture and more of a consequence.
- Actual research on black families shows that family structure has less of an outcome on child success than parenting and economic resources. Further, that 70% belies the fact that while black children may be born to a single mother the majority of black kids are raised by two parents. If you count the number of black kids who are raised into a network of extended family and family friends, you'll find also that the majority of black kids are raised with large support networks (including religious istitutions like church) as well, which is one reason some researchers believe black kids are less likely to engage in risky behavior than white kids.
If you looked at actual facts, you would then understand and know why the vast majority of black people are not criminal, the vast majority are not thugs, and large amounts of black kids seek higher education despite their socio-economic circumstances.
If you looked at actual facts, you would not let an opinion based on snippets of CNN specials or FOX News delude you into thinking black people are dysfuctional. On the contrary, Blacks are among the most hard-working, striving, optimistic people you can find even after experiencing 300 years of legal slavery, dealing with 100 years of discrimination and being told we were everything but what we really are, and continuing to push forward despite overt and institutional racism that remains very much in tact in this country.
I will be damned if I hear another person say some drivel that is based on a skewed reality. If you want to explore violence, explore why all these white men are killing their wives in recent months or thousands of others in serial killings and school shootings in the past decade, ask why in their dealings with virtually every foreign country in the modern age they all led to the death and destruction of millions of people. Forget a "thug" robbing someone for $10 or the rare instance a black person kills someone, I'd rather that than someone robbing an entire region of their natural resources or thousands of people on Wall Street or killing off an entire f-ing race. If you really want to talk about violence and crime, I would suggest you research your own people first before you start passing ish this way. GTFOH.
Wow...You ETHERED with that post...If I could give you more rep points I could...good job and excellent post!
Note the difference between "overall American culture" and "single common white American culture." I never said the latter existed nor did I discuss it.
You assumed that "overall American" means "white American." Further my post is not talking about a single, common culture, but events, trends, and historical occurences involving people of European descent.
And, indeed, criminals of ALL races should be "dealt" with. What's sad is those dealings often involve reactive criminal prosecution after the crime has already been commited instead of preventive measures. I believe fundamentally we're all human and all prone to take a wrong turn without proper resources and support. Many of us luck out and don't go that route, but it's not up to me to act as God for those who weren't that fortunate. We have to really take a look at how we criminalize and incarcerate folks. We have the highest prison rate in the globe and yet crime has not decreased. Why is that? This country needs to take a long hard look at its criminal "justice" system and make some changes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner
Having lived in Suburban MN, rural SD, rural MN, and now suburban GA, I have to reject the notion that the US has a single common white American culture.
That said, however...
As far as I know, the above is absolutely correct. The problem isn't really "black America", if such a thing exists, but rather a set of irresponsible individuals who I believe need to be dealt with.
In some areas of the Atlanta metro, it seems the lack of police presence is a huge factor. Try some of the same crap in other metros and see how far it gets you...
The realest post EVER made on this board. But of course if they dont see it on the 6 o'clock news they'll dismiss it to be propaganda. You have to realize that some of these people honestly believe racism and discrimination ended in the 60s.. or that profiling is an "imaginary" phrase. One of the most true statements my grandmother ever made was that the klan wasnt disbanded, they just wear business suits now. It holds true everyday.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,486 posts, read 15,002,372 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizchick86
Several things wrong with this post and the majority of what this thread has become. The two biggest ones are that:
a) People are relying on tropes they hear in mainstream media without any citations or indication they've even done the simplest amount of research on the matter.
b) Folks are conveniently ignoring the overall American culture in which all of this is prevalent, particularly among white Americans.
If either of these two were done, this thread would not have become a race issue at all, but an observation of what's wrong with American society in general. The fact that it did become racialized proves just how much racism is a very active feature in American society.
The facts:
- Crime is a function of poverty, and more African-Americans are poor. Most blacks are in jail for non-violent crime such as drug possession and property crime. Looking outside of criminal activity related to socio-eco status, Black people who murder represent two-one hundreths of one percent of the total population of Black people. This is far from a "culture" of thugness in the black community.
- the 70% out-of-wedlock birthrate is high because the number of married black couples having children has decreased. Making the percentage of those who have babies out of wedlock higher. Should out-of-wedlock births be addressed? Absolutely. But considering that out-of wedlock births became an issue only in the 70s with the War on Drugs (as prior to that around 70% of black kids were born into married families) as young black men were being disproportionately targeted and sent to prison for drug use (even though black teens have historically used less of every type of drugs than whites) more often than any other ethnic group, I would say it's less of a culture and more of a consequence.
- Actual research on black families shows that family structure has less of an outcome on child success than parenting and economic resources. Further, that 70% belies the fact that while black children may be born to a single mother the majority of black kids are raised by two parents. If you count the number of black kids who are raised into a network of extended family and family friends, you'll find also that the majority of black kids are raised with large support networks (including religious istitutions like church) as well, which is one reason some researchers believe black kids are less likely to engage in risky behavior than white kids.
If you looked at actual facts, you would then understand and know why the vast majority of black people are not criminal, the vast majority are not thugs, and large amounts of black kids seek higher education despite their socio-economic circumstances.
If you looked at actual facts, you would not let an opinion based on snippets of CNN specials or FOX News delude you into thinking black people are dysfuctional. On the contrary, Blacks are among the most hard-working, striving, optimistic people you can find even after experiencing 300 years of legal slavery, dealing with 100 years of discrimination and being told we were everything but what we really are, and continuing to push forward despite overt and institutional racism that remains very much in tact in this country.
I will be damned if I hear another person say some drivel that is based on a skewed reality. If you want to explore violence, explore why all these white men are killing their wives in recent months or thousands of others in serial killings and school shootings in the past decade, ask why in their dealings with virtually every foreign country in the modern age they all led to the death and destruction of millions of people. Forget a "thug" robbing someone for $10 or the rare instance a black person kills someone, I'd rather that than someone robbing an entire region of their natural resources or thousands of people on Wall Street or killing off an entire f-ing race. If you really want to talk about violence and crime, I would suggest you research your own people first before you start passing ish this way. GTFOH.
- the 70% out-of-wedlock birthrate is high because the number of married black couples having children has decreased. Making the percentage of those who have babies out of wedlock higher. Should out-of-wedlock births be addressed? Absolutely. But considering that out-of wedlock births became an issue only in the 70s with the War on Drugs (as prior to that around 70% of black kids were born into married families) as young black men were being disproportionately targeted and sent to prison for drug use (even though black teens have historically used less of every type of drugs than whites) more often than any other ethnic group, I would say it's less of a culture and more of a consequence.
- Actual research on black families shows that family structure has less of an outcome on child success than parenting and economic resources. Further, that 70% belies the fact that while black children may be born to a single mother the majority of black kids are raised by two parents. If you count the number of black kids who are raised into a network of extended family and family friends, you'll find also that the majority of black kids are raised with large support networks (including religious istitutions like church) as well, which is one reason some researchers believe black kids are less likely to engage in risky behavior than white kids.
If you looked at actual facts, you would then understand and know why the vast majority of black people are not criminal, the vast majority are not thugs, and large amounts of black kids seek higher education despite their socio-economic circumstances.
As you quoted my post in particular, I have to ask where you think I said "the vast majority of black people are criminal", other than that you seem to fail to recognize that I was talking about the black community in microcosm, not in comparison to any other community, as for your reasons ratifying the 70% of children born out of wedlock, I have to say that is drivel and a total avoidance of the issue. 60% of black children are raised in fatherless households, where are these two parents you speak of. The vast majority of research states that children raised without married parents and intact, stable families are more likely to engage in antisocial behavior. That is white or black kids, but we are talking about black kids here.
Let me give you an indisputable fact, 100% of black thugs are thugs.
More than 90% percent of black murder victims are killed by black murderers.
"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life," Jesse Jackson said in 1993, "than to walk down the street and hear footsteps . . then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
Don't be under any illusions, the biggest enemy of the African-American is the African-American, the problem is that in order to address it then the community must actually take ownership of the problem rather than trying to blame someone else, if someone has really tried to put you in a hole do you think that same person is going to help you get out? Especially when you gleefully jumped into the hole when it was offered to you.
I do agree w/ your fustration of people talking about things they know nothing about, but turning around and saying "Whitey"s evil" only keeps the hate alive. The fault lies with the media and social establishment that has decided it's more profitable to cast Blacks in the light of criminals and thugs than as entrepenures, artisians, parents and leaders. All of us fighting each other is exactly what the elites want you to do, and we're all falling for it.
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Ethered!!
