Atlanta loses streetcar grant

[Tristan840]

Bummer man

[noah]

Perhaps because they increased our property taxes 25%+ and our sewer rates 48%+ in 2009, one of the worse years in the economy in a generation. On top of that they have pension obligations completely out of control and have not done anything about it yet. Instead they have acted like they can just tax residents all they want to fix the problem.

Originally Posted by waronxmas

Besides, why does everyone always trot out this "not fiscally responsible" line about the City of Atlanta?
Also, what exactly is a good model for being "fiscally responsible"? Would it the example the State of Georgia has set by digging the state into a $4.5 billion dollar hole through it's "tax cuts fix everything!" approach. http://www.gbpi.org/documents/20100125.pdf (broken link)

[noah]

Most cities try to model their light rail after Portland's as they have done an awesome job there.

TriMet: The Next Generation of MAX: New Trains Begin Service August 2009
MAX Light Rail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

They weren't going to be those types of open-air street cars. They were going to be light rail cars roughly based on a system like the MAX system in Portland, Oregon. City leaders went on a vacation.. er... "business trip" several years ago to Portland and liked what they saw, hence, where the idea was originally born.

[tonygeorgia]

I hope Mary Norwood runs for Governor

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

It is also worth noting that during the day we have to host an additional 3 to 400,000 people commuting here for work, school, vacations or conventions. No other city in the country, except for DC which has the Feds to rely on, deals with such a large growth in it's population each day.

We're the only city that sees a 300-400k increase in population daily? Ever heard of NYC? Dallas? Houston? Los Angeles? Shall I go on? Let's not make the fact that so many folks choose to commute into the city from the suburbs seem like some kind of oddity that only occurs here in Atlanta.

Originally Posted by waronxmas

Secondly, the City and the Georgia Transit Connector actually had it's poop together. They entire plan had been finalized, systems worked out, environmental studies done, etc. The only thing that was need was the money. Read about hat here The Atlanta Streetcar Project is “Shovel Ready.” | Georgia Transit Connector: Atlanta Streetcar

They obviously don't understand "shovel ready". There's a big difference between having "preliminary plans" and "environmental impact statements", and being able to go to bid and start work tomorrow.

Originally Posted by waronxmas

So despite your insistence, the city was willing to do something. Unfortunately, due to stringent state laws regarding the way municipalities can tax themselves, they were pretty hamstrung from the get go.

Yeah, they were willing to pay for the operations- until the day when they realize "oh, no- this thing is losing money, just like MARTA! What do we do now???"

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

We're the only city that sees a 300-400k increase in population daily? Ever heard of NYC? Dallas? Houston? Los Angeles? Shall I go on? Let's not make the fact that so many folks choose to commute into the city from the suburbs seem like some kind of oddity that only occurs here in Atlanta.

I forgot to add "percentage wise".

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

They obviously don't understand "shovel ready". There's a big difference between having "preliminary plans" and "environmental impact statements", and being able to go to bid and start work tomorrow.

This is where we will have to disagree. From what they laid out on that page, I don't see what else they have to do aside from getting the funding.

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

]Yeah, they were willing to pay for the operations- until the day when they realize "oh, no- this thing is losing money, just like MARTA! What do we do now???"

Totally different situation and a rather disingenuous argument (factually speaking). MARTA isn't able to use 50% of it's revenue for operations. If it was able to, they wouldn't be able in the trouble they are now. It's like someone being told that you must spend half of your income on the mortgage, groceries, car payments, insurance, etc and the other 50% on building additions to your house. I think under those conditions even the biggest penny pincher would be on "fiscally unsound" ground.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by noah

If this is the case how has the city funded large projects like new stadiums, Marta etc in the past. Strictly using bonds? Contrary to what many believe there is still a bond market out there.

If that is the case then perhaps that is the way forward with the streetcars.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by noah

Perhaps because they increased our property taxes 25%+ and our sewer rates 48%+ in 2009, one of the worse years in the economy in a generation. On top of that they have pension obligations completely out of control and have not done anything about it yet. Instead they have acted like they can just tax residents all they want to fix the problem.

I agree that the property tax situation needs to be overhauled. I read this story a few weeks back about how people are still being taxed for the inflated values of the houses from a few years because, not what they paid for them. That's a big problem.


The sewer problem is one unfortunately had to be done. The problem was ignored for decades and Mayor Franklin was the only one with the huevos to take it on.

As for the pensions, well, we'll have to wait and see. At least Mayor Reed is making it a priority to fix it.

[noah]

Meanwhile we are still paying taxes are values highly inflated over what we paid for our homes.

The sewer problem needs to be fixed but its bigger then that. They need to fix their customer service, stop screwing their customers etc. There are instances where they have turned off people's water because of billing errors by the city, retro'd back increases when they should not have etc. The stories go on and on and they refuse to even apologize. Sad really.

Customer service needs overhaul too, residents say *| ajc.com

Earlier this year, an audit found the department sitting on $3.9 million it should have refunded to thousands of customers. Auditors also reported delinquent accounts at more than $50 million and said the department fails to collect millions more every year. Bills are based on estimates, rather than meter readings, for 10,000 accounts every month, the auditors noted.

Originally Posted by waronxmas

I agree that the property tax situation needs to be overhauled. I read this story a few weeks back about how people are still being taxed for the inflated values of the houses from a few years because, not what they paid for them. That's a big problem.


The sewer problem is one unfortunately had to be done. The problem was ignored for decades and Mayor Franklin was the only one with the huevos to take it on.

As for the pensions, well, we'll have to wait and see. At least Mayor Reed is making it a priority to fix it.

[ATLHRLGUY]

Originally Posted by ericsonga

Despite grant rejection, Atlanta won't give up on streetcar *| ajc.com

If nothing else, I really hope all of this teaches our state and local leaders what their inability has cost us. Hopefully in the future, our governments can finally work together and actually realize some of these grand plans. This is just so sad and pathetic.

I so agree, I was really hoping this would happen, but I'm not at all surprised. Separate issue-as a whole, why does the state of Georgia continue to bite the hand(Atlanta) that feeds them!?!?!