To the APD: Tell me why this is not vehicular manslaughter (Austin: insurance, compensation)

[JohnHenrySDM]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

I looked up the data on this Census Tract (18.13) at Rundberg Lane using the American Community Survey data. Maybe not "very likely" but 40.4% of the population there is in the "Not a U.S. Citizen" category. Margin of error is 7.3%.

Therefore the driver was most likely not a Mexican National. I think you just disproved your point while at the same time proving that you're operating with some prejudicial stereotypes.

You may want to just quietly step away from this thread...

[Trainwreck20]

I looked up the data on this Census Tract (18.13) at Rundberg Lane using the American Community Survey data. Maybe not "very likely" but 40.4% of the population there is in the "Not a U.S. Citizen" category. Margin of error is 7.3%.

Okay, so what percent of the drivers in the area are "not a US citizen"? Could be more, could be less, who knows? The assumption is a very poor start to a discussion.

It is about protecting the public from the 5% of drivers that are a menace to everyone else. I would say negligent driving that results in a death could be ground for the revoking of that person's drivers license so they aren't as likely to to it again. Now driving with a revoked license should (or could?) be grounds for jail time if there is a vehicular manslaughter as a prior just as repeat DWIs can bring jail time.

No argument there, but no reason to incarcerate them while you investigate, unless you have sufficient cause.

If you are charged with a crime in Travis County or COA and the charges are later dropped does that still show up on your record? If it doesn't that it shouldn't affect your getting a job or rent an apartment, correct?

The person so charged is often a pariah in the meantime - I know of one specific case where a woman lost her job (she was a teacher) after she was indicted for vehicular manslaughter. She was found innocent, but the press had convicted her long before any court even started. She ended up moving away from Austin, and she is likely doing fine now, but an indictment, regardless of the outcome, is often treated as a conviction while the case runs its course.

What if the cops don't charge the suspect and then the suspect leaves the country? Extradition doesn't always work.

I am guessing the police have an idea of what the flight risks are, and make decisions based on that. It is quite possible the person has a family and job here. You are assuming that they are NOT legal residents, even w/o any indication that they illegal, and that they are just raring to run.

Anyway, if they leave the country, you have successfully protected the public by removing them from the streets.....

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by JohnHenrySDM

Therefore the driver was most likely not a Mexican National. I think you just disproved your point while at the same time proving that you're operating with some prejudicial stereotypes.

You may want to just quietly step away from this thread...

I think 40% is quite a lot compared to the Census Tract along RM 2244 that is 4%. Not statistically probable but also not something that should be ignored either.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

Okay, so what percent of the drivers in the area are "not a US citizen"? Could be more, could be less, who knows? The assumption is a very poor start to a discussion.


No argument there, but no reason to incarcerate them while you investigate, unless you have sufficient cause.


The person so charged is often a pariah in the meantime - I know of one specific case where a woman lost her job (she was a teacher) after she was indicted for vehicular manslaughter. She was found innocent, but the press had convicted her long before any court even started. She ended up moving away from Austin, and she is likely doing fine now, but an indictment, regardless of the outcome, is often treated as a conviction while the case runs its course.


I am guessing the police have an idea of what the flight risks are, and make decisions based on that. It is quite possible the person has a family and job here. You are assuming that they are NOT legal residents, even w/o any indication that they illegal, and that they are just raring to run.

Anyway, if they leave the country, you have successfully protected the public by removing them from the streets.....

I never assumed their status only brought out a possibility that they may be a foreign national. I supposed it could be down to a problem with the car like the alleged stuck gas pedal of certain Toyotas/Lexus cars, but most of the time these accidents are the result of human error. And I never said incarcerate, but rather charge which would probably require the accused to post a bond, and still get on with their life in the meantime. It should always be maintained that an individual is charged, not convicted of anything, before trial. What happened to your friend is regrettable but the entire judicial system is imperfect b/c it is run by human beings, and that situation thankfully is the exception to the rule. And if the accused left the country there is still no restitution to the victim and their family. If Jessica Tata was never extradited there would be no justice in either a criminal or civil court. Anyway I still ask why does this take 5 weeks and counting? Lab work? Legal haggling? Or are they hoping that no one will remember? Or is the based on the possibility that the victim and his family don't have the means to seek compensation? Anyone who thinks APD is above politics and bias is kidding themselves.

[Cozen]

"Mens rea is Latin for "guilty mind". In criminal law, it is viewed as one of the necessary elements of a crime. The standard common law test of criminal liability is usually expressed in the Latin phrase, actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea, which means "the act does not make a person guilty unless the mind be also guilty". Thus, in jurisdictions with due process, there must be an actus reus accompanied by some level of mens rea to constitute the crime with which the defendant is charged (see the technical requirement of concurrence). As a general rule, criminal liability does not attach to a person who acted with the absence of mental fault. The exception is strict liability crimes." Wikipedia

Vehicular Manslaughter is not a Strict Liability crime. In Texas traffic offenses are treated as civil infractions not criminal. Therefore, even if someone is speeding or violating some other relatively minor traffic law, unless they are driving so reckless as to rise to a level of criminal culpability, they do not have the requisite Criminal Intent to charge them with Manslaughter.

Take these examples: A person doesn't see a stop sign, runs it (infraction) and hits a motorcyclist. Motorcyclist dies. Manslaughter? no, no guilty mind, only negligence in running the stop sign.

A person is street racing (Misdemeanor) and loses control, hits a spectator and spectator dies. This is Manslaughter. Even though the racer did not intent to kill, he intended to race which is a crime. He drove with a guilty mind. The intent is carried over to the manslaughter charge.

[achtungpv]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

The person so charged is often a pariah in the meantime - I know of one specific case where a woman lost her job (she was a teacher) after she was indicted for vehicular manslaughter. She was found innocent, but the press had convicted her long before any court even started. She ended up moving away from Austin, and she is likely doing fine now, but an indictment, regardless of the outcome, is often treated as a conviction while the case runs its course.

I know a guy that was suspected of hitting and killing a homeless person the side of I35 a few years ago. He insisted he hit a deer. His attorney told the cops he'd turn himself in the next morning. APD said OK and then decided to bust down his door at 3AM and drag him out in front of his kids. AAS published his picture on the front page with the story. Of course, blood tests proved that his truck did hit a deer and charges were dropped. No follow up story was ever published and APD never apologized.

[verybadgnome]

I got the accident report today............

The driver, Juana Aviles-Areellano, made the following statement:

"She tried to press the break [sic] but she thinks she accidentally hit the gas. She tried to press the break [sic] again but the breaks [sic] didn't work or didn't catch. She stated the car wouldn't stop and ran into the h/m [hispanic male] and the bldg.........She stated she was not distracted in the vehicle. She stated she was just parking."

Later on in the report:

"Juana does not have a driver's license and has never tried to obtain one in Texas or anywhere else.

Juana has been driving for the past seven years in Texas and according to her, she received several tickets in the past for no drivers license and a crash. I did not find a driving record for her.

The vehicle is not insured, but all the other cars that are owned by Juana and her husband are insured.

Juana admitted that she had confused the accelerator pedal for the brake pedal."

Investigator Pedro Garza on 04/12/11:

"I met with Assistant D.A. Jessica Ghazal a couple of weeks ago and presented this case to her. We looked at several options of charges to be filed in case the grand jury could not indite on a criminal negligent homicide. The only charges would be Class C traffic violations.

I contacted assistant D.A. Jessica Ghazal this date and found out the case was declined for prosecution. I will cite the driver and Class C violations that were committed related to the case."

Investigator Pedro Garza on 04/12/11:

"I will issue Juana the following citations.

Reckless Damage Citation
Fail to Maintain Financial Responsibilities Citation
No Drivers License Citation

These are the only violations that can be filed at this time."

From the crime lab:

"......it was determined the decedent had suffered a skull fracture during the collision as well as possible internal injuries. A laceration was also observed on the inside of the decedent's lower right arm. Skin slippage was also observed on the front thighs of the decedent's legs."

[10scoachrick]

Anybody want to bet Juana was driving today...and yesterday...and the day before...

[TexasGirl@Heart]

IMHO...she should be indicted on vehicular manslaughter charges. If I were that man's family, I would be rounding up my team of lawyers!

[gpurcell]

So is she a citizen or legal resident?