lifelong renter buying a house

[scm53]

Originally Posted by supernaut112

The burbs that cropped up in the 1980s, as you mentioned, didn't seem so threatening at the time. Someone wants to live way-way-way out of the city? That's fine. Certain folks like that lifestyle.

Except that this became the norm, not the exception.

I'm sure that folks in Hyde Park thought Windsor Hils was way-way out there. And the folks in Windsor Hills thought Milwood was way-way out there. And the folks in Milwood thought Anderson Mill was way-way out there. And the folks in Anderson Mill thought Brushy Creek was way-way out there. The point is, everyone can point to a size of Austin that was big enough for them, and want to preserve it right at that point, like a fly in amber. The problem is, the fly is dead. I'm pretty certain Detroit would trade for our problems in a heartbeat.

And as far as your new town vision, who will open the stores that are there before the houses get built? What companies will open plants there vice tens of other cities competing for business? What happens when job advancement means you have to move beyond the small number of jobs in your new town? I realize this vision is attractive. Problem is, it fails in the execution. And when it does work, like The Woodlands, it ultimately becomes part of the urban expansion it was trying to escape to begin with.

NB - most weeks, like this one, I am in DC. Tell folks here you think an hour commute is onerous. They will laugh in your face.

[Aquitaine]

I swore I'd never drive the Beltway again for as long as I live. Mopac is automotive paradise next to that. Or the Belt parkway, for that matter.

[supernaut112]

Originally Posted by scm53

NB - most weeks, like this one, I am in DC. Tell folks here you think an hour commute is onerous. They will laugh in your face.

I have traveled extensively, and only in the U.S. is it OK to spend hours driving to work in a car. An hour + commute is never acceptable no matter where one lives. The biggest problem is that Americans seem to think that it is, and the problems rest solely on the acceptance of the suburban lifestyle. Go to almost any European city. These are compact and vertical. A town the exact same size of Austin, such as Strasbourg, is easily navigated by foot or tram.

We're all going to be in a world of hurt when the price of gas goes up and stays that way.

[Trainwreck20]

Rather than encouraging sprawl, why not consider starting new towns?

Like, new governmental entities? More mayors, councils, city managers, bond packages? I worked in GA for a while, and each county had its own extensive government. Just an FYI, GA has the second most counties in the U.S. after Texas. Each with a top heavy gov't

Why does everyone assume all people drive downtown? There is a natural development toward decentralized cities (at least in some cases). I right near Escarpment and Slaughter Ln. I rarely go north of Ben White, East of Brodie, west of 1826, or south of, well, Slaughter. I have everything I could need, including work, within that area give or take a couple blocks.

[Aquitaine]

Europe is largely like that because of their geography and their history. The whole place is densely populated, and even the less dense areas are still really old. Am I green with envy when I visit Italy and see four competing train lines trying to get my business to go from Milan to Naples for twenty bucks? You bet! But their country's shape just makes sense for it, as there are populated places all along the way to take on more riders.

Add to that the Italian labor market and the fact that you can't sneeze in Italy without hitting some archeological zone and you end up with astronomical costs for road travel. Gas taxes also play a role here, but just part of the whole picture.

If the price of gas goes up and stays that way -- which is possible but hardly a certainty within the next 30 years -- then it gradually become more economically feasible to build mass transit in states like TX that have historically been hostile to it. Everybody likes the idea of mass transit. I've never met anyone who actually preferred a long commute to a shorter train ride (or even the same length commute and train ride, since you can do other things on the train). It just doesn't make economic sense until you have people really packed in, and even then sometimes the geography makes it very difficult (San Francisco, where the BART is decent -- almost better if you don't live inside San Francisco itself).

I have traveled extensively, and only in the U.S. is it OK to spend hours driving to work in a car.

This is not really accurate. Brazil, India, China, Mexico, and Australia all have terrible traffic. The UK does too, even though it has a good rail system -- the rail system is also hideously expensive. The average commute time in Toronto is 80 minutes.

What do most places with bad traffic have in common? They're spread out such that it made sense early on to invest in road rather than alternatives. I do agree that it's foolish to think gas will always be cheap, but it's not going to go through the roof in this country anytime soon due to lack of supply (lack of desire to get at it is another question).

Also, not all European cities have good mass transit. Rome's is OK but not great. Naples' is pretty bad but has a good regional rail (the Circumvesuviana). You do get a lot more scooters and motorcycles in Europe, which is something I'd be happy to see in this country.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by supernaut112

Ah, everyone knows about the quality of Milburn homes.

The burbs that cropped up in the 1980s, as you mentioned, didn't seem so threatening at the time. Someone wants to live way-way-way out of the city? That's fine. Certain folks like that lifestyle.

Except that this became the norm, not the exception.

Rather than encouraging sprawl, why not consider starting new towns? Build a downtown center. Make everything compact and easily navigable. Court major corporations. Maintain the green space between these towns and Austin. Build an attractive, self-sustaining community so that people who live there feel compelled to stay put, rather than make an hour commute into the city.

Great idea. Wish someone had thought of it (and instituted it) sooner.

[N. Olikee]

See, I lived in Dallas for a while, and all those "burbs" that cropped up were simply little cities on their own that grew, and grew.......into DFW. Just like Georgetown, Cedar Park, Round Rock, Kyle, Bee Cave, Hutto, Lakeway.......etc. Already went through this in Houston.

[N. Olikee]

We're all going to be in a world of hurt when the price of gas goes up and stays that way.

We're going to be in a "World of Hurt" if we don't pursue our potential HERE!

[scm53]

Originally Posted by supernaut112

A town the exact same size of Austin, such as Strasbourg, is easily navigated by foot or tram.

You might want to check that. I lived within a hour and a half of Strasbourg for three years. Been there many times. The metro area has around a third of the population of the Austin metro - 600K vs. 1.7M. You certainly can get around the core by foot or tram, but you must have a car if you live there. Have to have a car to shop at the hypermarche!

Look, I'd love to have a German or French style transportation system. The TGVs and ICEs are wonderful. I rode the S-bahn and bus to work daily. But there are many factors that make that work, starting with density. The Germans are perfectly content to raise a family of four in a four story wohnung in 125 sq. meters - with three other families in the same building. You can't just attack the transportation component - it is all interrelated.

If you go to the Paris suburbs, you will find the US builder K&B building US style homes - with master suites, including bath. Kitchens "Americaine". A/C units. SFRs, on nice sized lots. They are moving in our direction, given the choice.

[gpurcell]

Originally Posted by supernaut112

I have traveled extensively, and only in the U.S. is it OK to spend hours driving to work in a car. An hour + commute is never acceptable no matter where one lives. The biggest problem is that Americans seem to think that it is, and the problems rest solely on the acceptance of the suburban lifestyle. Go to almost any European city. These are compact and vertical. A town the exact same size of Austin, such as Strasbourg, is easily navigated by foot or tram.

We're all going to be in a world of hurt when the price of gas goes up and stays that way.

Plenty of people in London with hour+ commutes.