Mass Transit Needs Mass: Why Rail Is Doomed In Austin (Leander: live, buses)

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by scm53

That is certainly true. The thing it can't succceed without, as currently proposed, (assuming he's an Austin voter) is his vote for the ever increasing bonded indebtedness to pay for it.

Hard to say its "ever increasing" when we don't know yet if it'll be $75 or $475.

[MovingAloha]

Originally Posted by scm53

You are making a bit of an apples to oranges comparison if you compare DC to Austin. First, unless you come in on 395/295, there isn't another non-occupancy controlled multilane limited access highway into the district. There are two into downtown Austin. Second, the Metro is a heavy rail, buried dedicated line - immune to traffic. Austin's will - according to every alternative they have shown - travel on city streets and tortuously wind through the UT campus. The issue is, what are the time savings for giving up the convenience of a car? In DC, they are substantial. Here, they won't be that much.

Well, when I did drive in instead of taking Metro, I NEVER took 395/295. I lived in Silver Spring and anyone familiar with the area knows better than to take those routes. My favorite drive in was through Rock Creek Park, but it still was/is a heck of a drive with the amount of street traffic. I would imagine that this commute is similar to what I faced when living in Cedar Park and driving initially to my job off of South I-35 near Ben White and later into downtown Austin on 17th street and Congress; Man, I would have loved to have been able to take Mass Transit. I think many people will quickly find the benefit of the Mass Transit, if the routes are compatible with the traffic patterns and user requirements.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by MovingAloha

Well, when I did drive in instead of taking Metro, I NEVER took 395/295. I lived in Silver Spring and anyone familiar with the area knows better than to take those routes.

I think many people will quickly find the benefit of the Mass Transit, if the routes are compatible with the traffic patterns and user requirements.

That's the point. There aren't the number of freeway lanes - and basically none from the MD side - into the District that there are into downtown Austin. So it isn't surprising at all that it is more of a time benefit to P&R into DC.

As far as your second point, unfortunately, not in any of our lifetimes will the routes match traffic patterns in any meaningful way.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by MovingAloha

I've lived in locales with Mass Transit (San Francisco, Washington DC/MD and VA , Tokyo and to a limited extent San Diego) and it is amazing once folks begin to use the Trains how quickly they see the convenience and value to the regular commuter.

I lived 12 miles from my Maryland home to my DC office and I drove approx 3.5 miles to the Metro station, parked and rode into work. In Virginia it was less of a drive and a little longer train ride but very convenient and I had approximately a 1/4 mile walk to work once off the train - which I enjoyed. In San Francisco, my drive to the Park and Ride was approximately two miles but my train (BART) commute from home to office was longer - again very enjoyable.

I say all of the above only to say, that it may seem counter-intuitive that people would be willing to drive part of the way to work and then park and ride, but it has worked in other places and I've participated.

I've had the misfortune to drive during rush hour in Austin and I know Mass transit is truly needed. I know folks love their cars, hey I'm from California, but even there Mass Transit is slowly gaining traction.

As a person who hasn't owned a car for 15 years...and who absolutely loves taking and using Mass Transit.

I am almost 100% sure that if I had to purchase a car to drive to a mass transit station, I would just rather stay in the car and drive the few extra miles get to the end destination.

Public transit works best when you have density all around it's stations, and many people can easily walk to that station.

[tom331]

The train is good, but it costs too much and it only benefit a tiny group of people who live out side of Austin city limit. It costs $220 million to upgrade the rail from Leander to Down Town Austin. It is likely that Capital Metro will spend at least $10M a year to operate and maintain it. The tax payers will never get their money back even if capital metro charges $100 for each rider per trip.

If getting return of tax payers' money is not the goal, we neeed to spend (waste) money on the train in town instead of out of town. At least it will benefit more people from Austin.

[winkosmosis]

Originally Posted by tom331

The train is good, but it costs too much and it only benefit a tiny group of people who live out side of Austin city limit. It costs $220 million to upgrade the rail from Leander to Down Town Austin. It is likely that Capital Metro will spend at least $10M a year to operate and maintain it. The tax payers will never get their money back even if capital metro charges $100 for each rider per trip.

If getting return of tax payers' money is not the goal, we neeed to spend (waste) money on the train in town instead of out of town. At least it will benefit more people from Austin.

Commuter rail is great, and it benefits people both inside and outside the city. For one thing, many jobs are in the suburbs now, mainly tech jobs. And for another, the more people commuting by train, the less gridlock there is in the city.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

Commuter rail is great, and it benefits people both inside and outside the city. For one thing, many jobs are in the suburbs now, mainly tech jobs. And for another, the more people commuting by train, the less gridlock there is in the city.

What does any of those generalities have to do with Austin?

[MovingAloha]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

As a person who hasn't owned a car for 15 years...and who absolutely loves taking and using Mass Transit.

I am almost 100% sure that if I had to purchase a car to drive to a mass transit station, I would just rather stay in the car and drive the few extra miles get to the end destination.

Public transit works best when you have density all around it's stations, and many people can easily walk to that station.

Haven't you lived in California? Maybe I have you confused with someone else; but there is a very good chance you will have to use a Park and Ride if using the Mass Transit.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by scm53

What does any of those generalities have to do with Austin?

Fine.

Austin commuter rail is great, and benefits both those inside and outside the city.

Every commuter on the train is one less commuter on the (over-capacity) highways and one less commuter parking downtown.

There are also many jobs in suburban Austin (Kramer station) accessible from the train. These include tech jobs such as Pickle/IBM/National Instruments.

specific enough for you?

[scm53]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Every commuter on the train is one less commuter on the (over-capacity) highways and one less commuter parking downtown.

Patently false - and quite common from transit religiousists. That assumes that every rail commuter gave up a car - and ignores those that rode buses, walked, carpooled, or rode bikes. Artificially inflated benefits.