"Austin, we have a problem" (Houston, Round Rock: home, neighborhoods)

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by scm53

Actually, the best possible situation for a city is that people work, and spend money in that town, but reside elsewhere. In Austin, 62% of the budget goes to public safety. VERY little public safety spending is done on commuters. They don't own property here, so there is no fire protection cost, and little police protection cost. They may, or may not use public parks. They certainly do spend inside Austin, and thereby generate substantial sales tax revenue. Many of them are also Austin Energy customers, and thereby generate more transfer money. One of the city functions that is funded by AE is economic development - a traditional role for any utility, public or private. In 2009, AE - not the City - transferred almost $8M to ED. The majority of their commute mileage is on state or federally funded highways. The "last mile" is on city streets that would exist anyway - for residents, for business, for public safety.

All of this "free rider" argument is theology - unquestioningly accepted on faith. For Austin, annexation is about the obsessive need for control, not revenue.

They spend half their day here, that requires police protection.

"Substantial sales tax revenue"? From lunches? Most major purchases (appliances, etc.) will be in the suburb if available.

>>The "last mile" is on city streets that would exist anyway - for residents, for business, for public safety.
But they wouldn't exist in their current configuration. They have to be built bigger because of commuters, and expanded sooner. They have to be rebuilt because of wear and tear sooner.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Novacek

They spend half their day here, that requires police protection.

"Substantial sales tax revenue"? From lunches? Most major purchases (appliances, etc.) will be in the suburb if available.

>>The "last mile" is on city streets that would exist anyway - for residents, for business, for public safety.
But they wouldn't exist in their current configuration. They have to be built bigger because of commuters, and expanded sooner. They have to be rebuilt because of wear and tear sooner.

Face it, there's a reason people live in, for instance, Cedar Park instead of say Thorndale. People benefit from Austin, and represent costs to Austin, but give little if nothing back.

[Tralfaz]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Face it, there's a reason people live in, for instance, Cedar Park instead of say Thorndale. People benefit from Austin, and represent costs to Austin, but give little if nothing back.

Perhaps if costs weren't so high, and the 50%+1 weren't so generous with other peoples' money, more people would choose to live within the city limits? To paraphrase a great Organian philosopher, "The more you tighten your grip, Austin, the more tax payers will slip through your fingers!"

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Tralfaz

Perhaps if costs weren't so high, and the 50%+1 weren't so generous with other peoples' money, more people would choose to live within the city limits? To paraphrase a great Organian philosopher, "The more you tighten your grip, Austin, the more tax payers will slip through your fingers!"

But it's the _exact_ same thing with _every_ single large city in America. People move to the suburbs to avoid paying central city taxes, but to where they can still benefit from the central city.

[riaelise]

Originally Posted by Novacek

But it's the _exact_ same thing with _every_ single large city in America. People move to the suburbs to avoid paying central city taxes, but to where they can still benefit from the central city.

That's not the reason why many move to the suburbs. Suburban areas, if anything, have higher property taxes. In New York City, the suburban areas of Westchester are just as ridiculously expensive as the City due to excellent schools, quality of life, and the overall wealth of the people that live there. They don't pay city taxes but they pay a very high property tax.

Certain people have tried to implement a commuter tax for years for the same reason "you surburbanites take, take, take but you don't give [in the form of taxes]" And the tax call fell on deaf ears every time.

People move to the suburbs for a mix of reasons, including affordability without having to live in some sketchy ghetto, good schools, lifestyle, whatever. I'm sure many of us would be happy if companies do relocate so that we wouldn't have to commute to work and use these central roads that Austinites pay for.

[Trainwreck20]

Bah, years ago (many years ago) RR and G'town were in ETJ battles...it is absolutely nothing unique to Austin nor is it limited to large cities.

[jb9152]

Originally Posted by riaelise

As ScoPro said, I have no need to go to central city events, we have lots of parks and shopping here.

That's wonderful for you, but the fact is that between 60% and 80% of the working populations in the suburbs leave everyday to go to somewhere in Austin.

Originally Posted by riaelise

The only reason why I'd go iinto the central city is due to my job, which will never relocate out of downtown due to the courthouse being downtown. I guarantee you, though, that my company would leave in a heartbeat if the courthouses and central government moved elsewhere.

No brainer, but short of Austin being demoted from state capital, probably not going to happen.

Originally Posted by riaelise

The suburbs are doing a pretty good job at trying to keep things local so that their citizens aren't having to commute for every single thing.

Except, you know...work.

[riaelise]

Originally Posted by jb9152

That's wonderful for you, but the fact is that between 60% and 80% of the working populations in the suburbs leave everyday to go to somewhere in Austin.

Yep, you're right. They go to work. But many people spend their non-working hours elsewhere. And actually it is wonderful for me that I don't have to commute for any reason other than work.

No brainer, but short of Austin being demoted from state capital, probably not going to happen.

Yep, I acknowledged that too. The only reason why I am not working out of Round Rock is because I happen to like my job and company.


Except, you know...work.

The suburban cities are trying to fix that too. Round Rock is a good example of this. I expect things to continue to improve when it comes to attracting companies to suburban cities.

the impression that I'm getting from threads like these is that suburban cities are somehow leeches or hangers on. Yeah, the growth of Austin has encouraged the growth of surrounding areas. But those surrounding areas are coming into their own so that many people won't have to use these central roads, parks, and whatever.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by jb9152

That's wonderful for you, but the fact is that between 60% and 80% of the working populations in the suburbs leave everyday to go to somewhere in Austin.

Is there some data behind that?

Two facts - the largest private employer in the region isn't in Austin. And 7.3% of the workers in the area work from home. I do know that less than half of all area commuters cross a county line - and it isn't necessarily to get to the holy grail of Austin. It also includes Austin outbound. So let's just say I'm skeptical of your 60-80% number.

And, as I said earlier, there is zero evidence all these "free riders" are anything of the sort.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by scm53

Is there some data behind that?

Two facts - the largest private employer in the region isn't in Austin. And 7.3% of the workers in the area work from home. I do know that less than half of all area commuters cross a county line - and it isn't necessarily to get to the holy grail of Austin. It also includes Austin outbound. So let's just say I'm skeptical of your 60-80% number.

And, as I said earlier, there is zero evidence all these "free riders" are anything of the sort.

And those 14,000 jobs at Dell (or how many less now after layoffs?) are a grand total of 1.5% of the metro employment (~880,000). So basically meaningless in the comparison.

Census: 150,000 workers commute to Travis from other counties | www.statesman.com