So I went to Walmart today and look what I found... (Austin: purchases, tax)

[riaelise]

Originally Posted by cBach

This is one example where the GOP claims that they want "local control" but when the local control conflicts with their interest, they over rule it.

There were actually some small towns in West Texas that banned plastic bags after several cows died due to swallowing the bags and it got stuck in their intestines, and you know you don't mess with beef in Texas so those towns banned the plastic bags. The problem with plastic bags is they tend to float around, they don't stay in landfills.

Austin banned plastic bags to be "green" and I commend them for doing it even though the state exerted its authority in overruling a common sense piece of legislature.

Now more cows will die because of this...

I'd say use paper, but then people will complain about tree usage :/

[cBach]

Originally Posted by riaelise

I'd say use paper, but then people will complain about tree usage :/

Paper is much better than plastic. Paper degrades in a few months. Plastic is around for years and years. Also many paper bags are made of recycled paper. Even McD's uses recycled cardboard for their hamburger boxes.

The real solution is reusing your "green" bags every time and washing now and then.

[Trainwreck20]

Originally Posted by riaelise

well tbh why would you hear anything? it's not something people would just talk about with random people. you wouldn't know that I didn't care for that ordinance unless you directly queried me.

our (williamson county) HEB always provided bags and I use them regularly. No bags for grocery items is a minor inconvenience, but there was no excuse for other types of stores to not at least provide free paper bags. I should not be carrying largish items out of the store in my hands when a bag would work.

I never discarded bags in the street and i don't see them littering the street any more without the ban than with.

Eh, there was lots of discussion with neighbors and such when the 'ban' went into effect. No such discussion when it went out of effect.

My point was more along the lines of how quickly it became a total non-issue - everyone pretty much got use to bringing their own bags (after a few 'whoops!' here and there).

All the non-grocery stores that I can recall going to provided free paper bags, just not plastic.

[Need4Camaro]

I usually just purchased paper bags at the checkout ... on occasions, I loaded up at Wal-Mart and realized I had no bags...yeah...big whoops...

Overall though I had no issue with the no bag issue.

[Snowpacked]

Originally Posted by cBach

This is one example where the GOP claims that they want "local control" but when the local control conflicts with their interest, they over rule it.

There were actually some small towns in West Texas that banned plastic bags after several cows died due to swallowing the bags and it got stuck in their intestines, and you know you don't mess with beef in Texas so those towns banned the plastic bags. The problem with plastic bags is they tend to float around, they don't stay in landfills.

Austin banned plastic bags to be "green" and I commend them for doing it even though the state exerted its authority in overruling a common sense piece of legislature.

Now more cows will die because of this...

That's been their mantra all along. You are free to do as we say.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by cBach

This is one example where the GOP claims that they want "local control" but when the local control conflicts with their interest, they over rule it.

There were actually some small towns in West Texas that banned plastic bags after several cows died due to swallowing the bags and it got stuck in their intestines, and you know you don't mess with beef in Texas so those towns banned the plastic bags. The problem with plastic bags is they tend to float around, they don't stay in landfills.

Austin banned plastic bags to be "green" and I commend them for doing it even though the state exerted its authority in overruling a common sense piece of legislature.

Now more cows will die because of this...

banning bags is not "common sense". When cities discover they can ban something like bags, they will start banning other common items that dont fit their agenda. For example, soft drinks above a certain size, dictating the amount of fat that can be in food, and banning guns. 100% of the time when people resort to "common sense" as an argument, they actually have no data or logic at all.

The GOP believe in states rights per the constitution, it is a liberal talking point to claim that the GOP favors local control.

What I like about what the legislature (and the courts) have done is they are ensuring that we have more rights. When Austin is trying to take rights away, the legislature is stepping in to stop Austin. Here are some, not all passed:

Bag ban
banning ride shares
Preventing us from cutting down trees on our property
Preemption of shooting bans on large properties
Preemption of regulation of any gun rights
Limiting the increases in property taxes
Allowing people to rent their homes on a short term basis


What many people dont understand is that municipalities garner all their power as chartered by the state of texas. The federal government also is supposed to have limited power, with all other power residing in the states. States are supposed to be the primary legislative entity.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by cBach

Paper is much better than plastic. Paper degrades in a few months. Plastic is around for years and years. Also many paper bags are made of recycled paper. Even McD's uses recycled cardboard for their hamburger boxes.

The real solution is reusing your "green" bags every time and washing now and then.

paper is actually much worse than plastic when it comes to climate change.

Q: In looking at the research that’s out there, what have you found regarding plastic shopping bags versus paper or cotton bags?

A: There are really good things about plastic bags—they produce less greenhouse gas, they use less water and they use far fewer chemicals compared to paper or cotton. The carbon footprint— that is, the amount of greenhouse gas that is produced during the life cycle of a plastic bag—is less than that of a paper bag or a cotton tote bag. If the most important environmental impact you wanted to alleviate was global warming, then you would go with plastic.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by cBach

Paper is much better than plastic. Paper degrades in a few months. Plastic is around for years and years. Also many paper bags are made of recycled paper. Even McD's uses recycled cardboard for their hamburger boxes.

The real solution is reusing your "green" bags every time and washing now and then.

There is a breakeven point, which I suspect most people never reach.

This diagram shows the carbon footprint of various types of bags. I suspect the average polypro and cotton bags are not used enough to offset their climate change impact as compared to disposable bags.

[ndcairngorm]

While one could debate the merits of paper vs. plastic all day long from different viewpoints, I do think it is the height of silliness to call getting a plastic bag for your purchases a "right." Austin is trying to take your rights away? Give me a break. Read your statement below, Austin97, and see if in retrospect you don't think it's a bit out of the box.

What I like about what the legislature (and the courts) have done is they are ensuring that we have more rights. When Austin is trying to take rights away, the legislature is stepping in to stop Austin. Here are some, not all passed:

Bag ban

[Trainwreck20]

To be clear, plastic bags were not 'banned' - you could always buy a plastic bag for a quarter as long as it was 4 mils thick or more. Non-reusable bags were banned.

And the argument that the bag ban was a precursor to the end of civilization or whatnot - give me a break. A thousand things are 'banned' or surcharge currently.

As an aside, our cotton bags are probably pretty close to that 'break even' number above, and our 4 mil plastic bags have almost definitely passed it. And carbon footprint is not the only concern, there is also the trash/litter aspect. The UK study that I think is generally considered the most comprehensive in re: to GHG shows a reuse rate of 3/131 instead of 4/173 and some alternate materials (woven poly, feels similar to cotton) with a break-even number of 11.

Oh, I can also put more in more reusable bags than the disposable plastic, so the 'number of use' times should probably take that into consideration.