Texas HS top rated as any others, seems some just want to negate this! (high schools, ranking)

[traceyr13]

Originally Posted by carolinajack

But are they addressed in those other schools or is that ones perspective or hearsay, and not really the truth? not saying she is not telling the truth, but one can say that about any ranking in any state regardless of funding.

I understand what you are saying, and certainly agree that what I am presenting is one person's opinion. For some of what I said, it is definitely my experiences as one person in a few different schools.

However, I would also argue that there are state mandates and practices that correlate with what I'm saying. For example, the TAKS are fact (not perception) and I have yet to meet an educator (and I've spoken to many) in Texas who are not frustrated by the "teach to the test" mentality. There are many other states that do not have mandatory high stakes testing, which I believe reflects a basic philosophy that standardized tests should not drive curriculum.

I have direct knowledge of several districts in Texas (I have no idea how many, since I don't know if this is standard for all) that have a district-wide curriculum that mandates how, what and when teachers teach what they do. I can tell you from direct experience, and those of family members who teach in other districts, that this standardization is not the norm in other states.

Finally, if you want to continue with hardcore "data" and not "personal perception", then you can look at average SAT scores, college matriculation rates, etc, and see how other areas of the country fare.

I understand the desire to both defend Texas and the inclination to denounce my opinion as elitist Yankee rhetoric, but as a parent even more than an educator, I'm very sad for what is happening in schools here.

[carolinajack]

i cant believe i am defending public schools anywhere as i am totally against Government run schools, however, having worked in them as you have, having dealt with the policies and politics as you have-both parties signed and promoted the teach to the test curriculum back in the 90s that became the bipartisan no child left behind act, i can see that it is perception and not just data. as you said , one has to be skeptical of lists and data for that matter so we cant not trust it and use it to our advantage as we like. Skeptism is wonderful in so many cases though. spinoza was interesting

anyway, i dont at all take away from your knowledge or data usage or perception and experience, i cant disagree with what you know and have experienced. I, on the other have worked and seen the other side. i have seen in the Northeast as well as in teh south and southwest, the failings of the Government run school system. the social passing, the teaching to the test, the 50% failure rate of Massachussetts teachers on the NTE in the 90s. Yes there are some awesome schools in Mass adn New England, Boston Latin being one of the Best, Stuyvesant and Bronx Science, in NYC, Central and Masterman in Philadelphia, etc--but it doesnt mean that we are comparing the schools properly, the tax bases properly, the ratio of public to private usage, or funding. I know tons of schools in Mass and in VT and CT failing students at this moment, and i know some that are doing an awesome job. What i dont like to do is point fingers. Yankee elitism or not, Southern redneck backwardness or not, we have to look at ourselves. you defend the Yankee side and say its not elitis and but dont see how wrong it is to jump on Texas, while i see Texas as worthy of praise and i dont like the experience i have had with Yankee schools. it is perception but its also arrogance and we should as parents, teacher and educated people not do it, and I will start by apologizing. sorry for it.

I will not defend and allow others to make their judgement calls as they see it

[love roses]

One thing I DO like about my daughter's class is that they send out a little newsletter every week outlining what they are learning about. I'm sure other schools do this too, that's probably where they got the idea. But, I always read it and take a trip to the library or plan activities outside of home or when we're out and about so I can expand on what she's learning in class. It can be about cars, bugs, water, colors, numbers, rocks....I want her to know more than what they teach in the classroom and I know lots of people on this board do as well. We spend lots of time expanding our kids education to help them think critically and maybe even teach them other ways to approach solving math problems and so on....because I know the teachers can't spend that much extra time with them even when many of them want to be able to do that.

[DWong]

People! For those of you who are educated, read the print and the formula how this was obtained!

I love it when the post says "seems some just want to negate this!"

This is only a better reason that really questions the intelligence of some!

From the article: Schools that enroll high numbers of disadvantaged students tend to face challenges when it comes to statistical measures of academic performance. But that’s not always the case, as demonstrated by the success of these America’s Best High Schools honorees

By no means is that a way of measuring the top high schools people.

And guess what, alot of those schools know how they are rated and all almost ALL private schools. What a great advertisement to parents when you can say you were ranked in the top 100 in US and World report.
The parents probably don't know the criteria either!

In short, there is no way of measuring how good schools are because there are way too many factors. Can't use % who go to college, bc that's more economic. Test scores varying from state to state, your passing is different than ours. Maybe the only real answer is SAT score (granted it's plenty flawed) but it is the same test and scored the same, regardless of what state or school you take it in.

Anyways, yes I did negate this, but lets be real - we all know where the good schools are and MOST people can't afford to send their kids to these schools anyways. Public schools are where 97% of kids attend so lets put those private schools aside and work with something that plausible for your working class family.

[CarnivalGal]

Originally Posted by carolinajack

Also, there is no mention of the horrendous drop out rates of students in Northeastern schools of Boston, Albany, NYC, Philadelphia, DC and even Chicago--and the funding per child is higher than some southern cities with less spent per child. DC is an excellent case.

Its elistest snobbery to always think they are better but not to point out the issues that are not being faced. Philadelphia has graduated less than 50% each year for quite awhile, but it doesnt get the same sort of coverage as GW Bush's state--hmm i wonder--esp when the city loves to promote public schools over other alternatives.

For the record, Houston, Dallas, and Fort Worth Schools all have a graduation rate of less than 50% as well. And according to this article by USA Today, Austin's graduation rate is actually worse than Philadelphia's.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...tes_x.htm#grad

[CarnivalGal]

Also wanted to add that a lot of the schools on that list are charter schools, which are not an accurate measure of an area's public school system as a whole.

[DWong]

Originally Posted by mm57553

For the record, Houston, Dallas, and Fort Worth Schools all have a graduation rate of less than 50% as well. And according to this article by USA Today, Austin's graduation rate is actually worse than Philadelphia's.

USATODAY.com - Big-city schools struggle with graduation rates

Excellent article.... some people just needs the facts!

[carolinajack]

mm i didnt say they didnt have rates less than 50%
i said philadelphia did and not negating the fact that other cities would too

[robino2001]

Originally Posted by mm57553

Also wanted to add that a lot of the schools on that list are charter schools, which are not an accurate measure of an area's public school system as a whole.

This was essentially going to be my input to this... though I know most of the Texas schools on there are magnet schools, not exactly the same as charter schools. I graduated from a HS that made this list 3 of the 4 years I was there... it was a magnet school - I can safely say that the magnet schools are VERY different than the typical education system locally and do not really represent the Texas school system as a whole. I wouldn't consider a single school on that list from Texas to be a traditional public school like everyone is familiar with. Take that for what it's worth though.

[loves2read]

a chater school in TX is one that operates as a teaching entity not related to the local ISD it is located within--it gets money from the state based on attendance of students (just like other public ISDs) and it also get the allocation of local districts tax monies per child--since the parents pay school tax to their local district (which the child is not attending)...it is open to any student who qualifies based on the standards for admission--not by residency which is the basis of public ISDs attendance

because state tax money supports the charter school--students are required to take the state TAKS tests...

a MAGNET school normally is a special focus school WITHIN a local ISD--students go there based on whatever criteria the ISD has set up--maybe standardized testing levels, maybe auditions, maybe just lottery based on desire to attend...
again TAKS testing is required because the ISD gets state money based on student attendance...

some charter schools use the word MAGNET in their titles but charter and maget are not interchangeable...
a private school in TX is not required to have students take TAKS tests because there is no state funding for that school--BUT some private schools do have students take TAKS to show that they preform better (or at least satisfactorily) when compared with public schools

as a retired teaching in TX public schools, I am so tired of these "rankings" that are supposed to prove what schools are excelling...it is just a ploy to sell magazines and give tacit approval of the standards used for evaluation---
President Bush has tied ALL Federal funds to standardized testing--all states are falling into the trap of No-child-left-behind
if they have had an easy time meeting standards up until now, the standards get progressively more difficult/demanding so their self-confidence may change soon--and face it
I think many areas of the East have very stable population groups/little influx of lower-socio-economic, ESL students--it is easy to have good schools when students don't present problems like being IN school for the first time at 15---try bringing someone from Africa who is 16 and speaks their version of English--but not American Standard English--up to speed in 9 months to take a grade-level 10th or 11th grade TAKS test in ELA--but it is required...

I know that it is possible to get a great education in a mediocre school/ISD if you have a student with potential and desire and the right teachers...
it is also very possible to go to one of those "top-rated" schools and come out with a mediocre education and totally under perform...