The news today (Austin, Howe: condominiums, lawyer, house) - Texas (TX) - Page 3 - City-Data Forum

TexasHorseLady · 05-12-2009, 09:20 PM

The forced blood draw is something that's been being done lately in Austin, and it is constitutionally questionable, in my opinion. (The 5th Amendment, by the way, is about the freedom not to answer questions that might incriminate oneself, which is a bit different from innocent until proven guilty, but which IS pertinent to the forced blood draw). The innocent until proven guilty, by the way, should apply to the police officer in this case, as well.

Once again, my favorite quote from one of our country's founders:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots · 05-12-2009, 09:23 PM

When a forced draw is required the person usually doesn't even know their name. But then again...I'm always open to being wrong. I really should be sleeping instead of posting. And I"m not sure about not having to answer the question part.

Person A, (totally wasted)
Person B (police officer)

Person A just ran a car full of people into a tree and now they're all dead from the impact. Person B asks person A: are you drunk? Person A has a right to not answer because it's going to incriminate them and they have a right to refuse blood draw? I'm not seeing the logic here and if you can explain it I'm listening.

TexasHorseLady · 05-13-2009, 06:51 AM

You're talking about something else. Here, on holiday weekends when folks might be drinking, the police chief has instituted a policy of requiring blood be drawn on all stops of suspected DWI where the suspect declines a breath test or to give a blood sample (which is their right constitutionally), with no refusal allowed. That's an entirely different scenario than you're describing. Here is a brief article (http://www.kvue.com/news/newton/stories/033009kvue-blood-draw-eh.8a00a32c.html - broken link), out of many I found via google, to help clarify.

The thing you have to remember is that, whatever you might think of DUI, once you allow someone else's civil rights to be abridged in this manner, you've just given up your own civil rights and any right to object when yours are violated for reasons that someone else thinks are good and proper and make sense to them.

That's what Mr. Franklin's quote above means, really. He was a gentleman who was intimately familiar with the concept, along with his fellow citizens, and thus we have a country in which we can argue this fact today.

jobert · 05-13-2009, 09:24 AM

I wonder how the new homeowners at Mueller feel about this. There are houses in Mueller for sale - priced at over 1 million that are only 1/2 mile from the neighborhood in which the shooting occured.

oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots · 05-13-2009, 09:29 AM

Thanks for the link. That is interesting.

centralaustinite · 05-13-2009, 10:28 AM

I doubt that the folks in Mueller think twice about it. I know several people there and they love it. It may be just half mile away as the crow flies but it would be longer to drive there and it is a very different world. If Mueller is just half a mile away, then my son's daycare is just a mile away but so what? It wasn't a random event. You are most likely to be a victim of a violent crime perpetrated by someone you know -- so pick friends and family members wisely.

mimimomx3 · 05-14-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots

Have you ever seen someone drunk? I mean REALLY drunk? It's not rocket science to figure out they're drunk. Have you ever experienced anyone totally wasted on hard drugs and booze? They're insane. (and I don't mean a couple of beers and a joint) I'm talkin wasted. When a person gets that wasted I cannot see how they can hide behind the constitution. One doesn't have to wonder whether or not they're wasted...it's obvious. And again, if a person wants to drink and drug themselves to death they have a right. However, once out in the public or hurting someone at home under the influence then they lose their rights in my opinion. Maybe I don't know what you mean.

No one 'hides' behind the constitution. It is the foundation of our legal justice system, and the police and the rest of the judicial system have to respect it. I don't care how drunk/stoned/belligerent you are, there are certain rights we have that have to be observed. What about someone with Parkinsons? I'm sure they look 'drunk' to many. Should they be strapped down and forced to give blood?

mimimomx3 · 05-14-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jobert

I wonder how the new homeowners at Mueller feel about this. There are houses in Mueller for sale - priced at over 1 million that are only 1/2 mile from the neighborhood in which the shooting occured.

Crime happens everywhere. How do the folks in Pemberton feel during the UT football season? I have friends who are used to waking up and seeing drunk frat boys in their yards!

oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots · 05-14-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

No one 'hides' behind the constitution. It is the foundation of our legal justice system, and the police and the rest of the judicial system have to respect it. I don't care how drunk/stoned/belligerent you are, there are certain rights we have that have to be observed. What about someone with Parkinsons? I'm sure they look 'drunk' to many. Should they be strapped down and forced to give blood?

No, I don't think someone with Parkinsons should be strapped down and forced to give blood. I agree with you that we all have rights. I have a right to be safe in my own home and on my own property. I have a right to be safe while driving down the road. I have a right to be safe while walking down the sidewalk. Or are those extreme rights to want? I'm just not of the persuasion that someone jacked up on coke and drunk at the same time has a right to drive, come up to my door, ask for cash for their next fix, or bug me while I'm walking down the street. I agree. We all have rights. Finding the balance is the key I suppose.

mimimomx3 · 05-14-2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots

No, I don't think someone with Parkinsons should be strapped down and forced to give blood. I agree with you that we all have rights. I have a right to be safe in my own home and on my own property. I have a right to be safe while driving down the road. I have a right to be safe while walking down the sidewalk. Or are those extreme rights to want? I'm just not of the persuasion that someone jacked up on coke and drunk at the same time has a right to drive, come up to my door, ask for cash for their next fix, or bug me while I'm walking down the street. I agree. We all have rights. Finding the balance is the key I suppose.

Respecting an individual's rights is the key. That means every citizen.