Is Austin a southern, southwestern, or western city? (Houston, Dallas: plantations, architecture)
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Austin is a southern city according to all measure that matter...Historic, and Cultural. If find it a bit erroneous to try to fit the entire South into this monolithic identity.
For starters, not a single person on here has been able to verbalize what exactly it is to be southern. I have seen some of the most ridiculous arguments against Texas as a wholes southernness on this board, that i have heard anywhere.
"They don't serve sweet-tea by default"...LOL
"Its too dry to be southern"...LOL
"it doesn't look like Mississippi"...LOL
Lets look at some Historical factors that qualify and secure Texas place as a "southern" state.
1. They were an original member of the CSA.
2. They murdered and butchered German-American and German Unionist
3. They threw out their Governor for not getting on board
4. Supplied the CSA with both men and supplies for the war, and Texans earned their southern stripes by sacrificing men on what the rest of you call Southern soil.
5. Texas was a Strong-hold post "The War for Southern Independence"...a term frequently used in texas during that era.
6. Texas believed and BELIEVES in Sovereignty of the state of Texas and other states.
7. Texas was part of the Solid South, and was the last stronghold for democrats before it flipped for republicans and established the New Solid south
8. Texas has ALWAYS been one of the souths loudest voices. We have never unified ourselves with the southwest for any reason.
Cultural- and guess what, it doesn't have a dang thing to do with tea....
1. Bible belt- Texas has always been a Christian and protestant strong hold.
2. Texas is King Cotton, and our beginnings are DEEPLY rooted in the agricultural culture of cash crops. To this day we are the nations LEADING cotton producing state.
3. We are rural america, we have more farms and ranches then anywhere else in the country. Rural america and southern america are VERY VERY VERY similar culturally.
4. The Southern Black culture is strong, long, and well
Are we Antebellum South? Only a portion of our state, an area roughly the size of Mississipi. Are we Old South? Yes. Are we deep south? Historically yes, Culturally speaking...that same Mississipi sized region. Are we new south? YES.
This idea that Hispanics or germans or catholics don't have a place in southern culture or history is revisionist at best. By the same argument, Cajun Culture is not Southern. Gullah Culture is not southern.
The south is diverse as a place as you can get. In fact it is the richest, deepest, and purest cultures we have in this Country.
Guess, what....Austin by virtue of being in the state of texas is SOUTHERN.
Now i do accept El Paso to be Southwestern, and believe it to be the gate way to the southwest. I also hate that city as the most non-texan city i have ever had the displeasure of roaming through. Historically speaking it has always been that way. It wasn't ever really considered a part of texas terrotory until around 1850, around 15 years after the establishment of the Republic. it was a concession prize after Texas agreed to give up a large portion of its claim above the Mason-Dixon. El Paso still isn't like by most Texans. The Sub-region of the "south" ends culturally just south of hwy 285 in south texas. South of Uvalde in Central Texas. West of Fort Stockton. Historically, The entire state is Southern.
Wow, good thing you woke this sleeping dog to set everyone straight on this highly subjective topic. Nice to know that many of the opinions and insight offered by others turn out to be "laughable". We should have all been smart enough to have thunk of the dead Germans as defining evidence of what Texas is today. How enlightening.
Let's look at the lush subtropical native vegetation in Austin. Let's see, scrubby native juniper ("cedar") that has drought-resistant foliage. Scrubby live oaks that are nothing like the huge specimens that live in the Deep South; and unlike their Southern counterparts clad in luxuriant Spanish Moss, Austin's pathetic little specimens have clumps of "Ball Moss" studding their limbs. Take a drive out 71 or 290 immediately west of town and see the yucca and prickley pear -- so Southern! Try growing anything in your garden besides lantana, rosemary and the like -- see what happens to your unwatered roses and azaleas (and the soil is too alkaline for the latter, without adding signficant amendments -- quite unlike the acid-rich soils of the South). And I love all those bayous snaking through Austin! Oh, sorry -- those are all man-made lakes. Just such Southern topography and flora!
I do not agree with this reply.
First of all I was born in Fort Worth but I was raised here in the Austin area all my life to tell you that is not true.
Austin by Definition is part of the subtropical climate zone and is humid subtropical. I went west to El Paso and it looks nothing like Austin. I could compare Austin to Houston. Austin has native Texas live oaks as well as Southern Live oaks and you can find that "pathetic ball moss" all over the south as well as in east Texas. Sure Austin has "man made lakes" but that's just the dammed colorado river which flows from Matagorda bay and has greenery growing all over and do have characteristics of a bayou. Like Tstone said, The south is home to prickly pear. Take drive to Spicewood Springs (A southern name) and you'll see tall lush cypress trees and boggy waters like in Louisiana. In fact, Austin is home to some tropical plants like Agave which grow in Brazil in some places. To call Austin semi arid is stupid. You'll have to go to places like Ozona, Lubbock, and Amarillo to see true Semi Arid climate. If Abliene is considered humid subtropical, so should Austin.
BTW, Popeyes, ChickFila, and Waffle House are not Southwestern chains( Though you can find one in Amarillo) and they are here in Austin.
South by Southwest is an accurate term for Austin. Austin has southern influences, but by large it's a Texan city. Probably the most "Texan'' feeling city in Texas I've been to.
I haven't found Austin to be "Southern" either. If you order iced tea here, it is usually unsweet by default. The only people with southern accents in Austin are originally from the real South (Louisiana, Tennessee, Georgia, etc). There is no prevailing accent in Austin that I have noticed at all...the people sound like they could be from anywhere (and with so many transplants, they usually are).
That's because about 90% of people who live in Austin aren't from there. Generally, larger cities in the South don't have as much of a southern accent as those who live in the countryside anyway.
The thing with the sweet tea is becoming more common in bigger cities in the South, even in Houston iced tea comes unsweet by default. That being said, you can get sweet tea at almost any restaurant in Austin, hell even the In N Out there has it (the one's in California don't). Also Austin is home to Sweet Leaf Tea and Texas Tea brands. On top of that, my aunt lives in Windsor Park, and lives within a mile of 4 fried chicken places.
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I'll occasionally notice a Texas accent (with sounds different than a Southern accent), but even that happens very rarely. I've never seen a Rebel (confederate) flag in Austin, and I can't remember ever seeing one anywhere else in Texas either.
Texan accents may not have the drawl of a Mississippi or Alabama dialect, but they have a twang very similar to the Appalachia region of Tennessee and North Carolina, which would be considered southern.
As for the rebel flags, Hays High School in Buda is known as the Rebels, and had a confederate flag flying in their courtyard until it controversy forced them to take it down in the early 1990s.
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I don't think of cacti growing in the South. Austin has cactus growing everywhere. Just about every river in Central Texas is named in Spanish too (Guadalupe, Frio, Comal, Blanco, etc).
Most of the cacti in Austin are not even native to the region. Go drive around rural areas outside of Austin, you will not find any cacti growing naturally, even in the Hill Country where it's drier. Austin has plenty of live oaks and deciduous trees that would not make me think of the Southwest. And last I checked Austin has a humid-subtropical climate. What place in the desert southwest has this climate? None!
And using the argument that there are a lot of Spanish names is just stupid. Louisiana has a lot of names that are French, does that mean it's 'not the South' because it's different in that regard?
The South is a big region, with many tinier subregions. Saying that Texas isn't the South because it certain characteristics that make it stand out is like saying Pennsylvania is not in the North because it's culturally different from Maine. When I drive through the nearby Hill Country, it almost makes me think of a drier, mini-Appalachia, especially culture wise. Many of the small town in THC feel southern in culture, not western.
I agree with what you said about Texas being its own region, it really is kind of it's own place. You can't really peg it into one region like you can with most states. Geographically, the eastern half of the state is more in the South, while the western part is more in the Southwest. Culturally speaking however, Southern culture in Texas goes about as west as Midland, only the Trans-Pecos region is more similar to the true Desert Southwest. Texas culture is based off of Southern culture, but it has a western bite to it too, which is what makes it Texas. Hell you can say that about any state.
Coming from a Louisiana native, except for East Texas (both SE TX excluding Houston and NE TX excluding Dallas), TX is a southwestern, not southern state.
Sorry to burst your bubble on this, but that is the truth.
However, I think the history of the southwest is less "controversial", so just accept what you are Texans, you are southwesterners.
Most of the cacti in Austin are not even native to the region. Go drive around rural areas outside of Austin, you will not find any cacti growing naturally, even in the Hill Country where it's drier.
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That statement is so untrue. Prickly Pear Cactus is native all over Central Texas and can be found growing not only in the Hill Country but east of Austin also.
That statement is so untrue. Prickly Pear Cactus is native all over Central Texas and can be found growing not only in the Hill Country but east of Austin also.
I guess I stand corrected. However, I always thought the cacti in Austin looked odd compared to the other flora in the region.
That being said, I did some extra research to find that there are naturally occurring cacti as far east as Houston. Does that mean Houston is the desert southwest? Didn't think so.
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Coming from a Louisiana native, except for East Texas (both SE TX excluding Houston and NE TX excluding Dallas), TX is a southwestern, not southern state.
Sorry to burst your bubble on this, but that is the truth.
However, I think the history of the southwest is less "controversial", so just accept what you are Texans, you are southwesterners.
Being someone who's lived in Houston, I can honestly say Houston is very much a Southern city. Houston clearly has more in common with Atlanta than El Paso, especially in climate and the local architecture. Dallas is more prairie-esque, but still has a bit of that Southern flavour in some areas.
Also, as I pointed out in another post, Texas was part of the Confederacy, and there were plantations as far west as Midland. So yes, Texas does share the "controversial" history you have pointed out.
I also stated in another thread that Texas shares plenty in common with the South and the Southwest in a cultural sense. In other words, if you're from Texas and want to say you're in the South, then do so. If you think you're in the Southwest, do that. Own the label of your choice.
My mum grew up in Orange, Texas. I've asked several of her family members what they believe. One of them says that Texas is very much the Southwest and that Louisiana isn't the true South because it had French influence (which I know plenty of Louisiana folk will disagree with), but most of them agree that Texas is a crossroads for several major regions in North America.
Houston and East Texas are the only Southern thing about Texas. Head west of Houston and you're out west.
When I think of the South I think of dandy Georgia and Alabama. It's totally different. I think people wearing Sperry Topsiders, pleated khaki shorts, bright polos, those Oakley shades held on by a strap. Besides the people wearing cammo gear I see no similarities.
Texas is Southwest and has more in common with New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and even California before southern states like Virginia.
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