Can you stand another yard grass question please? HUGE estimate given :( (new home, construction)

[motherofthree]

Organic compost is the best to get the microorganisms to keep your soil and lawn healthy. Dillo dirt does add good nutrients and some people swear by it.

To the original post: What kind of grass do your neighbors have? If they have St. Augustine then you should plant St. Augustine. My neighbors across the street had nice looking Bermuda but in a few years their neighbors St. Augustine took over their yard. She is so not happy about it.

[hoffdano]

It is easy to keep St. Augustine from intruding in areas it isn't wanted by physical barriers. It spreads by runners on the surface, not by seed or via roots. So landscape timbers, plastic borders, etc. will generally keep St. Augustine from spreading.

[CptnRn]

The Natural Gardner The Natural Gardener: Organic Gardening Headquarters recommends against Dillo Dirt. When I called them to ask about it, they said you can never be sure what is in it, often it carries weed seeds, plant diseases and strange chemicals.

Real Green Lawns Top Dressing with Dillo Dirt also does not recommend Dillo Dirt.

Cons: Often brings in insects and weeds, last year (2004) we saw sedges, yellow and purple nut sedge. This year, we are seeing Dallisgrass. (2005) It also brings in disease, such as brown patch, insects such as sod webworms, and armyworms.

[Zzyzx]

I used Dillo Dirt on my lawn. They claim the weed seeds are killed in the processing. So far this year I have filled over 10+ 33gal bags of weeds and 2 big green trash cans. My yard looks like it was shelled by mortar rounds.

Don't think I'll go that route again

[RowdysMom]

When I moved into my home the front was St. Augustine, the back was bermuda and weeds. Gradually over the years, with good care to the St. A in the front yard, it crept into the back yard and now my back yard is as beautiful St. A as the front. So yes, St. A will overtake bermuda. That said, it is very easy to keep St. A from spreading with a physical barrier.

If I had dead patches of St. A, I'd definitely wait and see because it may not be really dead, and may come back or the live grass may fill in the dead areas. If they turn out to be dead, I'd put in raised beds with zeriscape plants to save on water. St. A is VERY thirsty. Or I would put in a raised bed to grow a vegetable garden!

Whatever you do, try to do it organically and I would highly recommend The Natural Gardener for advice.

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

How about perennial rye? Around here it stays green all winter. I like it. Are there negative connotations regarding it around here?

I'd never have that Augustine stuff. When we first got here I thought it was weeds. Also, I can't stand such a tangled mess.

[gdu]

We did Palisades Zoysia this past August and are thrilled we did. It looks better than our neighbors' St. A and Bermuda. It pays for the increased cost in water and labor if not appearance very quickly. I've heard it doesn't do well with plugs in this area, though.

[braveheartwendy]

Wow, I thought I would be lucky to get a couple replies, thank you all so much for so much great information! I've printed everything out, and will head out to The Natural Gardener to finalize a plan. I think I will first try to see what I can salvage/what wakes up the SA by adding compost tea/Lady Bug Terra tonic (TNG site recommended this as even better than compost, and the other website mentioned also recommended a compost tea). While I know SA can't handle the foot traffic, it seems the cheapest way to start.

Our backyard is totally fenced and beds are all edged with plastic barriers so think I may try to add bermuda seeds and see if anything happens.

To Shankaupas: 3rd lawn in 7 years with 2 dogs and 3 kids - this is what I'm afraid of! Every house we've had we've had to resod or other desperate measures as no matter how wonderful the grass looks when we buy the house, our dogs/kids trample it. I feel your pain! I cannot see spending $3-4K to only do it again in a few years.

I doubt we can do the labor ourselves, but even so, I can't see that labor would justify the high price we were quoted. Think I will try compost tea/bermuda seed, as well as trying to take up a portion of the yard with a raised bed for either veggies or if can figure out how to make the raised bed pretty, drought resistant plants.

Thank you all again, wish me luck, and I will let you know if anything worked.

[braveheartwendy]

BTW, we put rye seed down last winter because we had so many dead spots, but never again. It grew all winter so had to be mowed all winter, and where we didn't put it, the SA was dormant and all brown so everything was patchy. Even if we did it all over, I'd never do again. It will die soon as the heat rises.

gdu: may I ask how much it cost to add the Zoysia, how you did it?

[ROY DUBOSE]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

I feel your pain, that price does seem high, but may not be if you are resodding everything. But yes there are some less expensive alternatives that might be worth trying. I hesitate to give lawn advice because my lawn looks terrible right now after the weather we have had in the last year (drought followed by unusual freezes), and this is in spite of the tremendous effort I have put in to try and keep it looking decent. I did discover late in the summer that the lawn had Cinch bugs which probably accounts for its poor condition. I did spray for them but may need to do it again.

That said, here are some options I'm considering.

Every grass we can use in this area seems to be a trade off.

St. Augustine (SA) needs too much water and is prone to have problems with disease, iron deficiency and insects more then others. On the plus side it crowds out weeds well, easy to start from sod or plugs, fills in fast, does relatively well in partial shade and develops a nice thick lawn. It also stays green longer then Bermuda.

Bermuda is drought resistant, resistant to diseases, easy to start from seed or plugs, holds up well to foot traffic but it does not do well in shade and needs regular attention/maintenance to keep it out of flower and mulched beds. Yes it is possible to overseed your lawn with Bermuda and mid to late April is a good time to seed bermuda grass. You will have to water it every day to get it to germinate.

Zoysia with proper care is said to resist invasion of weeds and other grasses, as well as damage from insects and diseases. It can be started with sprigs or sod blocks. It is moderatly drought resistant but most types of Zoysia do not do well in shade. Pallisades Zoysia is supposed to do as well in partial shade as SA. Zoysia is slower growing, so easier to maintain, but may take one or two years to develope as thick a lawn as SA or Bermuda would do in 3-6 months. Zoysia also browns out sooner in winter and turns green later in spring then SA or Bermuda.

I'm considering is to plant Zoysia with plugs into my existing lawn. Watch this movie, it appears relatively easy to do. Zoysia Farm Nurseries: Planting Zoysia Zoysia Farms contends that the Zoysia will establish it self in an existing lawn when done this way. Although they have not responded to my email asking if Zoysia can take over in a SA lawn. I'm not sure that in the long run any thriving St. Augustine grass wouldn't crowd it out, but I may have to try it and see.

You could do the same thing using Pallisades Zoysia sod plugs if your lawn needs a more shade tolerant grass.

Maybe you cold hire a teenager from the neighborhood to install the plugs for you, you can probably find some happy to have the work.

Top Dressing I was interested to find this web site from one of the larger lawn care firms in the area, recommends against top dressing a lawn with dillo dirt or compost, they recommend fertilizing instead. Top Dressing with Dillo Dirt

got my zoysia plugs in from zoysia farms and am gettin' 'em down -- couple of gotchas -- the plugs come as 10" X 15" sections to be cut down in 1" squares which is a huge time drain -- if you use the power auger the holes are a snap to drill -- i took a 12" wide piece of plywood and marked it every 12" to get my spacing -- am using an electric knife to cut the plugs but again, is still a pain -- be careful on the timing of the order from these guys -- it takes 'em 2 days to process the order and then another week to take delivery from ups ground -- if you're planning on doing the plugging on a weekend you need to back track in order to get delivery on a friday (best timing i'd think)