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I really can't think of any country that doesn't have skeletons in the closet. France, Great Briton,Portugal,Spain,Netherlands,United States,Canada,Japan, the list goes on. All of those nations caused atrocities to the local indigenous communities. Racial Segregation was a wide spread practice everywhere. It was the 60's that really ended this sort of behavior all together
other99 I found your photo very interesting (and Unsettling)
British colonies banned slavery in the 1800's. But digging up some history there where some rare cases. Anyhow you should have a look at this site. I think you will find it very interesting Aboriginal History Timeline (1900 to 1969) - Australian Aboriginal History plus also look at the earlier history
Actually there is one thing that really bothers me
How come when ever anyone talks about aboriginal atrocities caused by the white man
They will always talk about early Racial Segregation,Stolen land and of course the Stolen generation.Now I admit these things are bad.
But compared to what ALCOHOLISM has done to the aboriginal community, those issues don't rate
Yet no one in the media wants to talk about it ???? What gives ?
Thanks for the link as it gave a more info on Jim Crow style laws.
Well alcholism within the Aboriginal community is a very sensitive topic and there are Aboriginal reserves out there that ban the sale of alcohol and there are even reserves that dont allow Aborigines to bring alchol there. Those that have made the laws were usually Aboriginals themselves. But of course in the past the white authorities did place bans on alcolol on reserves.
Anyway most of Australia population has had very limted or no contact with the Aboriginies in everyday life and thats probably a reason why that media barely mentions about it.
Anyway most of Australia population has had very limted or no contact with the Aboriginies in everyday life and thats probably a reason why that media barely mentions about it.
Everyday there are articles in the national newspaper The Australian about Aborigines, mainly to do with disadvantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornerguy1
At the risk of going well off the topic of the thread, moonshadow, you may want to revisit your theory about American troops not being greatly involved in ground combat in the Pacific theatre during WWII.
Places like the Philippines, Guadalcanal, and Iwo Jima leap immediately to mind.
And Tarawa, and Guam, and Peleliu, and Okinawa, and Saipan, and the Battle of Brisbane
At the risk of going well off the topic of the thread, moonshadow, you may want to revisit your theory about American troops not being greatly involved in ground combat in the Pacific theatre during WWII.
Places like the Philippines, Guadalcanal, and Iwo Jima leap immediately to mind.
The American civilian population, however, had little contact with Japanese forces save for some minor skirmishes in the Aleutian Islands. In the lower 48 states there was only one recorded death as a result of Japanese military action -- a civilian was killed by a balloon bomb near the town of Bly, Oregon.
Considering the well-documented atrocities committed on Australian civilians, it is hardly surprising that there was a strong anti-Japan sentiment in the 1950s.
And at the risk of getting into a fisty cuffs with you over it I did say "in the same way" my understanding being that once the Americans were in they were in charge, our Prime Minister abdicating leadership of our own military forces to MacArthur who became Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in the South West Pacific Area with his headquarters being established in Brisbane. So what we had was a bunch of diggers FINALLY being dragged back from Europe after getting into a huge political fight with Britian who weren't keen to give up their cannon fodder only to have them returned and shipped out to the Pacific where they became America's cannon fodder.
What that meant was Australian troops were yet again way down in the pecking order when it came to a fight, not to mention under resourced, under manned and now instead of fighting under the command of the Queen they were fighting under the command of our new big brother.
My comments were not in ANY WAY meant as a slight against American troops OR to negate that they fought in the Pacific simply to point out that many of the Australians had been in it since the beginning of the war, were dragged out of one place with one way of fighting into a completely different environment and different way of fighting right on their doorstep, still under resourced and expected to take orders from yet another country's leaders and were considered "expendable". There's also the fact that this was on Australia's doorstep making the motivations of the Australian Diggers and their experiences very different to that of the American troops.
Oh and back to the thread topic, other99 why don't you take a look at the more recent business that went on when John Howard suspended the Human Rights Act, seized control of Aboriginal land, banned alcohol & pornography and sent troops into some of the aboriginal communities all under the guise of stamping out child abuse.
AND Kev 07 followed that up with this new debarcle from the Remote Indigenous Housing Project which has provided 2 complete houses in the last few years for the princely sum of over half a billion dollars. AND strangely I did hear something about it on the news this week but my google searches are proving fruitless for some reason.
Oh and back to the thread topic, other99 why don't you take a look at the more recent business that went on when John Howard suspended the Human Rights Act, seized control of Aboriginal land, banned alcohol & pornography and sent troops into some of the aboriginal communities all under the guise of stamping out child abuse.
AND Kev 07 followed that up with this new debarcle from the Remote Indigenous Housing Project which has provided 2 complete houses in the last few years for the princely sum of over half a billion dollars. AND strangely I did hear something about it on the news this week but my google searches are proving fruitless for some reason.
Well I heard about Howard bringing in troops to some Aboriginal communities in the NT and I see it as a parentalism system of dealing with Aborigines and that has proven in the past not to be fully effective. In many cases that this was practised it was counterproductive.
However there is also Aboriginal reserves in parts of Qld where a womens group there pushed and succeded a ban on alcohol there.
Anyway there were even parts of towns where Aboriginals lived in same area as whites and eventually the authorities removed the people living there. An example is it happened near a town where I grew up in but it of course happened decades before I was born.
Last edited by other99; 02-13-2010 at 11:11 PM..
Reason: edit
Well I heard about Howard bringing in troops to some Aboriginal communities in the NT and I see it as a parentalism system of dealing with Aborigines and that has proven in the past not to be fully effective. In many cases that this was practised it was counterproductive.
I see it more of a be-seen-to-be-doing-something but not really revealing the actual motivation situation. And reading about how all the rules and guidelines actually apply and the ludicrous way in which people have to live their lives because of it (BasicsCard anyone? ) I see it as an epic fail and a sinister "how to" in government stealing away more citizens rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by other99
However there is also Aboriginal reserves in parts of Qld where a womens group there pushed and succeded a ban on alcohol there.
Yes. That kind of thing I applaud wholeheartedly. It's great when the actual community comes up with solutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by other99
Anyway there were even parts of towns where Aboriginals lived in same area as whites and eventually the authorities removed the people living there. An example is it happened near a town where I grew up in but it of course happened decades before I was born.
Look, it's difficult for me on this issue because we simply do not have a large aboriginal population in Melbourne in comparison to other areas around the country. AND from what I've experienced sure there are alcohol issues, BUT certainly not the other types of problems that go on. I certainly would be wanting an end to some of the rubbish I've heard go on in some places if I lived there. So I completely understand why the rest of the community might be resentful and calling for more extreme measures to be taken.
I don't think in those situations it's a racism issue, although many would like to paint it that way, I simply see it as a behavioural issue much like people don't want to be dealing with hoon drivers of any background.
I also think that some horrific things were done in the past to the aboriginal population and that we somehow need to rectify that BUT I don't feel guilty about it as I didn't do it and I don't see any reason why anybody else should be feeling guilty about it AND I tire of being beaten around the head about it like by my very existence in this country I am responsible in some way. I'm horrified and appalled when I see some of the things that still go on today but I can only take a stand against each injustice as it comes up, NOW in my lifetime, which is something I would do for ANY GROUP in the community who suffered an injustice.
I'm also sick and tired of somehow being MORE responsible in some way because of the colour of my skin as if my life and the lives of my family & ancestors were some great sunshine and roses picnic and that there was no suffering or injustice perpertrated against us, or that we didn't have to work just as hard as other groups in the community to get where we are today.
The images you've provided are upsetting and disturbing but they're a relic from a different time and should be left there imo. Instead of us all wasting time and energy bickering about what was we need to be working on what is and what will be and that means we're going to have to leave the guilt trip at the door and put our best foot forward and just get on with it.
When I visited Broome in 1985, I was directed to the 'whites' area of the Roebuck Hotel. Of course, everything is fine now.....
Edit: No seriously, I'd hope that segregation no longer exists. It shouldn't, because I visited prior to Lord McBloodyAlpine turning Broome into a tourist trap. When I visited, it was 'the bad old days'. I'm sure the Aboriginal population is well integrated into the Broome township now.
When I visited Broome in 1985, I was directed to the 'whites' area of the Roebuck Hotel. Of course, everything is fine now.....
Edit: No seriously, I'd hope that segregation no longer exists. It shouldn't, because I visited prior to Lord McBloodyAlpine turning Broome into a tourist trap. When I visited, it was 'the bad old days'. I'm sure the Aboriginal population is well integrated into the Broome township now.
No such segregation happening at the Roey when I was there in 98 Jacq.
THAT'S not to say I wasn't warned of avoiding particular places at certain times of day.
So I'm guessing on paper it's probably magically intergrated but in reality probably not quite as pretty as people would have you believe.
I'd have loved to have been there PRIOR to the tourist hoopla but I am thrilled I got to go when I did because it did seem to become a three ringed circus not long after that. I shudder to think what it's like now.
I don't think we'll ever know how widespread any of this was and we probably shouldn't be so quick to pass judgement? As we don't know the background of every case and what we may think of as being racially motivated today, may not have been seen in the same way then? It certainly dosen't make anything right! but we should try to understand the attitudes of the era, and not be so quick to apologise for/or to Condemn the actions of previous generations. Instead We should be trying to learn from them, so that we don't repeat their mistakes!
Anyway, That's my 5 cents and I'll shut up now!
Last edited by Kangaroofarmer; 02-14-2010 at 03:04 AM..
I don't think we'll ever know how widespread any of this was and we probably shouldn't be so quick to pass judgement? As we don't know the background of every case and what we may think of as being racially motivated today, may not have been seen in the same way then? It certainly dosen't make anything right! but we should try to understand the attitudes of the era, and not be so quick to apologise for/or to Condemn the actions of previous generations. Instead We should be trying to learn from them, so that we don't repeat their mistakes!
Anyway, That's my 5 cents and I'll shut up now!
Please don't.
I always enjoy your perspective on these things, roo.
You're very calm and even in your comments in my experience, something I find very difficult sometimes and with some issues.
I see it more of a be-seen-to-be-doing-something but not really revealing the actual motivation situation. And reading about how all the rules and guidelines actually apply and the ludicrous way in which people have to live their lives because of it (BasicsCard anyone? ) I see it as an epic fail and a sinister "how to" in government stealing away more citizens rights.
Yes. That kind of thing I applaud wholeheartedly. It's great when the actual community comes up with solutions.
Look, it's difficult for me on this issue because we simply do not have a large aboriginal population in Melbourne in comparison to other areas around the country. AND from what I've experienced sure there are alcohol issues, BUT certainly not the other types of problems that go on. I certainly would be wanting an end to some of the rubbish I've heard go on in some places if I lived there. So I completely understand why the rest of the community might be resentful and calling for more extreme measures to be taken.
I don't think in those situations it's a racism issue, although many would like to paint it that way, I simply see it as a behavioural issue much like people don't want to be dealing with hoon drivers of any background.
I also think that some horrific things were done in the past to the aboriginal population and that we somehow need to rectify that BUT I don't feel guilty about it as I didn't do it and I don't see any reason why anybody else should be feeling guilty about it AND I tire of being beaten around the head about it like by my very existence in this country I am responsible in some way. I'm horrified and appalled when I see some of the things that still go on today but I can only take a stand against each injustice as it comes up, NOW in my lifetime, which is something I would do for ANY GROUP in the community who suffered an injustice.
I'm also sick and tired of somehow being MORE responsible in some way because of the colour of my skin as if my life and the lives of my family & ancestors were some great sunshine and roses picnic and that there was no suffering or injustice perpertrated against us, or that we didn't have to work just as hard as other groups in the community to get where we are today.
The images you've provided are upsetting and disturbing but they're a relic from a different time and should be left there imo. Instead of us all wasting time and energy bickering about what was we need to be working on what is and what will be and that means we're going to have to leave the guilt trip at the door and put our best foot forward and just get on with it.
Well in Australia people dont really like to talk about the attrocities that were commited by the whites on Aborginals, just like in the USA or Canada the people there dont want to talk about the attrocities commited on the natives. However this subject is very neglected, and to fully understand Australian history you need to understand all sides of the conflict.
When I went to do an subject on Aboriginal history at uni I was quite distressed on some issues that were raised by the lecturer who is white about some of the crimes the whites commited on the Aborigines and I guess everyone in that room felt that way.
Anyway most Australians know what happened to the fate of the full blood Aborigines in Tasmainia. However that issue was not discussed in Schools when I was there and I wonder why. I was convinced up till very recently that there were no Aboriginals left in Tasmania but I saw an Aboriginal history program on ABC which stated there is.
Of course in the mid 19th century all Aborignals in Tasmania were sent off Tasmania to go to Flinders Island and several islands offshore in Tasmania. That part is where many of the desendants of Aborigines live today that were desendant of Tasmanian Aborigines but of course all the full blood Aborigines died off in 1860s. Many Aboriginal desendants that lived on those offshore islands off Tasmania later moved to Tasmania.
But of course during colonial times there where whites that strived to help and improve Aborigines lives, such as give them an education and defend them from attacks by other whites.
Last edited by other99; 02-14-2010 at 03:19 AM..
Reason: edit
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Everyday there are articles in the national newspaper The Australian about Aborigines, mainly to do with disadvantage.
AND strangely I did hear something about it on the news this week but my google searches are proving fruitless for some reason. 
) I see it as an epic fail and a sinister "how to" in government stealing away more citizens rights. 
