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With the rubbish Mossad has been up to is it time to fingerprint all those visiting Aus and NZ ?
The worst part about Mossad in NZ was a dual citizen NZ/Israel committing treason by helping those Israeli agents who were trying to nick a passport.
Him we would like back for a stretch in the slammer
Nope i am totally against this, the extreme securty measures imposed on the borders of the USA is one of the main reasons i have never visited the country!
Ok, seeing as how we don't seem to be able to stem the tide from certain countries with regard terrorism, how bout we start fingerprinting based on port of embarking AND country of citizenship?
An unpopular notion I'm sure, but ultimately wouldn't this then put pressure on those governments to clean up their acts?
The other thing that truly astounds me is WHY can't I, as an Australian citizen who wishes to travel go through a screening process in my own country and provide whatever information is necessary to my own officials that prove I am not a threat? I'd much rather be fingerprinted, and eye scanned and security checked here and given some kind of report card I could provide when travelling than being subjected to finger printing and eye scanning in an Allied country that is failing at the task of picking up terrorist plots. I mean in my experience they're even failing at the basics. Luckily for them I just want to visit AND I am happy to abide by their rules.
With the rubbish Mossad has been up to is it time to fingerprint all those visiting Aus and NZ ?
The worst part about Mossad in NZ was a dual citizen NZ/Israel committing treason by helping those Israeli agents who were trying to nick a passport.
Him we would like back for a stretch in the slammer
Are you trying to make me laugh??!! Most of the West basically cannot defy Israel's wishes. If you spent time in the US, you would figure it out quickly.
Nope i am totally against this, the extreme securty measures imposed on the borders of the USA is one of the main reasons i have never visited the country!
that's a reason?
it's not so bad - seriously,the times I've flown to the US it is annoying but it's hardly a reason to not visit a country.
Actually catching domestic flights in the US is more of a headache. The international part is fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow
Ok, seeing as how we don't seem to be able to stem the tide from certain countries with regard terrorism, how bout we start fingerprinting based on port of embarking AND country of citizenship?
An unpopular notion I'm sure, but ultimately wouldn't this then put pressure on those governments to clean up their acts?
The other thing that truly astounds me is WHY can't I, as an Australian citizen who wishes to travel go through a screening process in my own country and provide whatever information is necessary to my own officials that prove I am not a threat? I'd much rather be fingerprinted, and eye scanned and security checked here and given some kind of report card I could provide when travelling than being subjected to finger printing and eye scanning in an Allied country that is failing at the task of picking up terrorist plots. I mean in my experience they're even failing at the basics. Luckily for them I just want to visit AND I am happy to abide by their rules.
not a bad idea - a lot more responsibility for the govt of each country to be accountable for their citizens ....
I think if Australia or New Zealand had several passenger jets target high rise commercial buildings customs agents would be fingerprinting every visitor. I can see where it may be useful in keeping an eye on people within a country. However last December a passenger jet from Amsterdam to Detroit had a terrorist on board with a bomb.. and fingerprinting him upon ARRIVAL would have not anything to stop him.
So I once again go with Moon's opinion which seems to be the best option.
it's not so bad - seriously,the times I've flown to the US it is annoying but it's hardly a reason to not visit a country.
Actually catching domestic flights in the US is more of a headache. The international part is fine.
I have to admit Ozgal, that I share danielsa's resentment of the fingerprinting and eye scanning AND do not have any desire to be subjected to the full body scans they're now implementing...that said I do it because I want to see MM and my other friends in the US. It's the only reason, but I don't like it. I don't like it one little bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal
not a bad idea - a lot more responsibility for the govt of each country to be accountable for their citizens ....
Yeah, look I'm probably very much a civil libertarian in my views and I hate the idea that this tends to move toward profiling but the thing is I'm from an allied country and it burns me big time that I am repeatedly requested to jump through hoops in order to enter or exit the US when I'm not actually from a country with a history of allowing terrorists to board their planes and head for the US to create havoc. The other thing is I can more than prove right now that I am not the problem so given that we are allied nations I don't see why I can't "qualify" in my own country with my own officials and that should be more than enough. I'm quite sure it will weed out the people with dubious intention AND put pressure on the governments of those countries to be more zealous in their efforts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minibrings
I think if Australia or New Zealand had several passenger jets target high rise commercial buildings customs agents would be fingerprinting every visitor. I can see where it may be useful in keeping an eye on people within a country. However last December a passenger jet from Amsterdam to Detroit had a terrorist on board with a bomb.. and fingerprinting him upon ARRIVAL would have not anything to stop him.
You know mini, I had to submit my details to ETSA for Department of Homeland Security to check off on the watch list same as underpants boy. The difference between us is that when I filled out all that stuff I told the truth AND I have nothing to hide. Of course I'm still wondering if the information of either of us was actually checked at all.
And they don't really "keep an eye on us". No offense. You know I love America but I can indentify numerous parts of the process of getting to and entering the United States and actually being there where I think to myself, "good thing I'm honest and I don't have evil intent".
I mean they ask us on the little green cards on the plane if we've ever been convicted of treason or been a member of the SS. AS IF anyone is gonna answer that truthfully if they have. Surely you'd want to know that about a person BEFORE they get on the plane?
I still haven't heard ANY outcome from the recalcitrant green card fiasco from my original trip to the US in 08 other than I know they received it in Kentucky by registered mail. I don't go out of my way to ask because really who wants to poke the bear but it's odd to me that I have no idea what the outcome of their mistake was and probably won't know until I try to enter the US again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minibrings
So I once again go with Moon's opinion which seems to be the best option.
It's not the greatest option but we are at war and I think it's time to be realistic about that. You get travel warnings about going into war torn areas and advisories not to go, why aren't we also double checking the people coming out of those areas? It doesn't make sense to me. Should work on a similar system to the warning system. Different levels of threat depending on the country of origin.
I have to admit Ozgal, that I share danielsa's resentment of the fingerprinting and eye scanning AND do not have any desire to be subjected to the full body scans they're now implementing...that said I do it because I want to see MM and my other friends in the US. It's the only reason, but I don't like it. I don't like it one little bit.
I don't love it but understand that the US had to do something.
It wouldn't stop me from visiting though, and I forgot about full body scans -
although when i was there last year & had to continually half get undressed every time I took a flight there was a lot of muttering under my breath.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow
Yeah, look I'm probably very much a civil libertarian in my views and I hate the idea that this tends to move toward profiling but the thing is I'm from an allied country and it burns me big time that I am repeatedly requested to jump through hoops in order to enter or exit the US when I'm not actually from a country with a history of allowing terrorists to board their planes and head for the US to create havoc. The other thing is I can more than prove right now that I am not the problem so given that we are allied nations I don't see why I can't "qualify" in my own country with my own officials and that should be more than enough. I'm quite sure it will weed out the people with dubious intention AND put pressure on the governments of those countries to be more zealous in their efforts.
which is why i was annoyed at Mossad using our stuff to carry out assassination. What's to stop a terrorist cell doing the same - all of a sudden we're subjected to intense security as Australians
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow
You know mini, I had to submit my details to ETSA for Department of Homeland Security to check off on the watch list same as underpants boy. The difference between us is that when I filled out all that stuff I told the truth AND I have nothing to hide. Of course I'm still wondering if the information of either of us was actually checked at all.
And they don't really "keep an eye on us". No offense. You know I love America but I can indentify numerous parts of the process of getting to and entering the United States and actually being there where I think to myself, "good thing I'm honest and I don't have evil intent".
haha not sure what that ETSA thing sets out to achieve either??? the terrorist aint going to announce his arrival & intention
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow
I mean they ask us on the little green cards on the plane if we've ever been convicted of treason or been a member of the SS. AS IF anyone is gonna answer that truthfully if they have. Surely you'd want to know that about a person BEFORE they get on the plane?
don't get that part either - although made me laugh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow
I still haven't heard ANY outcome from the recalcitrant green card fiasco from my original trip to the US in 08 other than I know they received it in Kentucky by registered mail. I don't go out of my way to ask because really who wants to poke the bear but it's odd to me that I have no idea what the outcome of their mistake was and probably won't know until I try to enter the US again.
what happened?
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow
It's not the greatest option but we are at war and I think it's time to be realistic about that. You get travel warnings about going into war torn areas and advisories not to go, why aren't we also double checking the people coming out of those areas? It doesn't make sense to me. Should work on a similar system to the warning system. Different levels of threat depending on the country of origin.
I have to admit Ozgal, that I share danielsa's resentment of the fingerprinting and eye scanning AND do not have any desire to be subjected to the full body scans they're now implementing...that said I do it because I want to see MM and my other friends in the US. It's the only reason, but I don't like it. I don't like it one little bit.
I think we are trading too much freedom under the guise of security and I find it quite troublesome.
On the other hand, airplanes are different environments. We can't pull up and stop on the side of the road if someone goes loco so I guess it is reassuring in one sense that at least everyone getting on board doesn't have a fold up AK-47 and some grenades in that carry on.
Also despite the amount of political correctness and denial, we are at war. Not one we declared but one declared on us by radicalized islamists that believe all non believers must die. It's an enemy like no other because they have a suicidal belief system. As we have seen in India, Iraq, Egypt, Europe and the USA, they'll attack anyone, anywhere. So these are special times with special needs.
The one thing that is different with Oz and NZ is that it's a different ball game than the USA because nowhere near the numbers of people visit those countries. Also like in the case of NZ, most international travelers arrive in country in Auckland so it is easier to keep wraps on people when they are fed through one straw.
I don't love it but understand that the US had to do something.
Yes, I agree. I'm just not sure that this is the best option. I certainly don't like the fact that they now keep your personal details on file for 8 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal
It wouldn't stop me from visiting though, and I forgot about full body scans -
It hasn't stopped me either but I'm never going to embrace it.
THANKFULLY I got out of the country without a full body scan. I'm really not looking forward to going back and discovering I have to have one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal
although when i was there last year & had to continually half get undressed every time I took a flight there was a lot of muttering under my breath.....
Yeah that's a pain in the arse too. I do my utmost to remain calm and upbeat but I find the whole process physically exhausting and I do have to arrange my travel plans around it, which is really annoying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal
which is why i was annoyed at Mossad using our stuff to carry out assassination. What's to stop a terrorist cell doing the same - all of a sudden we're subjected to intense security as Australians
Yes. The Mossad thing is utter crap but I don't imagine much will be done about it in terms of getting to the bottom of it and actually making those responsible accountable. More likely it's going to mean more stringent checks for the rest of us AND the poor bastards that have had their details stolen are in for a hellish time of it I suspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal
haha not sure what that ETSA thing sets out to achieve either??? the terrorist aint going to announce his arrival & intention don't get that part either - although made me laugh.
Well I laugh about it quietly. You've got to be careful with Aussie humour when you are at airports or on planes these days. But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. And clearly it's not working because underpants boy submitted his details to ETSA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal
what happened?
Well at this point I'm hoping it's not a big deal but basically I arrived in LA on November 19th 2009 and was informed that the green card I'd submitted on my last trip in 2008 hadn't been removed from my passport at SeaTac when I flew out of the country. This basically meant that I had to provide the Department of Homeland Security with "evidence" that I had in fact flown out of the US on the day I said I was going to AND that I'd been home in Australia for 14 months. I had to get a whole bunch of "proof" together (and you know I entered the US with "proof" in my luggage, as you do ) so that meant calling home and having Mum hunt around in my personal effects for boarding passes , bank statements, qantas itineraries , that kind of thing and then I had to write a letter to the Department of Homeland Security explaining that I had in fact left the country and that I could prove it and then I had to post it off with copies of my "proof". I know they received my letter and the "evidence" because I sent it registered mail just in case and I got the slip back saying it had arrived but I've yet to hear what the outcome of it all was and I'm dreading finding out when I attempt to enter the US next time that they're not happy with the evidence I supplied.
I made DAMN SURE the girl at the Qantas counter removed the green slip when I left this time.
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AND the poor bastards that have had their details stolen are in for a hellish time of it I suspect. 
You've got to be careful with Aussie humour when you are at airports or on planes these days. 
But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. And clearly it's not working because underpants boy submitted his details to ETSA. 
