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Wilson, I've had a feeling about the breaking system in this car for the past three years. Everytime I bring it to the mechanic for its oil change or yearly inspection, I have tried to express what Gimme3steps provided in his quoted explanation of ABS above. I have experienced that same thing multiple times when coming to rapid stops (say from 60+ mph to an almost sudden stop). I can't even tell you the amount of times him and my father exchange amused looks and he goes ahead and changes the brake pads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad
All that racket you were hearing and feeling in the pedal was your cars anti lock system trying to stop you JUST AS IT SHOULD HAVE!
IN WET SNOW ,LIKE YOU WERE DRIVING IN, IT TAKES CHAINS OR STUDS TO NAVIGATE LIKE YOU WERE ON DRY ROADS! I'D SUSPECT THAT YOUR TIRES JUST COULD NOT GET A GRIP ON THE ROAD SURFACE ENOUGH TO STEER YOU AS YOU WANTED. WORN OUT TIRES (READ LITTLE OR NO TREAD) OR THE WRONG TIRES (NOT A GOOD GRIPPY ALL SEASON TREAD) IF YOUR TIRES CAN'T GRIP THEN THE WEIGHT OF THE CAR TIMES THE WET SNOW MEANS YOU'RE DRIVING A OUT OF CONTROL........SLED!!
THEN THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY THAT YOU HAVE NOT LEARNED HOW TO NAVIGATE WET SLOPPY SNOW. THAT TAKES TIME.........
DRIVING IN WET SNOW MEANS YOU DRIVE LIKE YOU HAVE A RAW EGG UNDER YOUR FOOT THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO BREAK.......EVERYTHING IS DONE VERY,VERY,VERY GENTLY WITH NO SUDDEN BRAKING OR ACCELERATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Despite the shouting (all caps) you have managed to disregard the OP's well expressed and legitimate concerns as set forth above. She has had a bad feeling about the performance of the brakes in rapid stops from 60 mph. And, you have proclaimed that is just her misunderstanding of ABS. It is very rare for a person to engage abs on what was likely dry pavement in a 60mph stop no matter how rapid. I would suggest that you re-read her posts and not try to insist that you and only you have the secret to her problem. when ABS fails it often will cause the release of one or more wheels because it wrongly detects wheel lock up. That is as likely what she is experiencing.
Thanks guys. Gimme3steps, that description you provided is precisely what I experienced. The min-skid explanation though ... I don't know. It was as if the front wheels were locked and upon acceleration and the thrust from the rear wheels, it caused the skids, and would right itself (as if the front wheels decided to start turning again) after 15 feet. While it was a snowstorm, the roads had only a slight coating and no one else was skidding. Just me - and not by my own choice!
Wilson, I've had a feeling about the breaking system in this car for the past three years. Everytime I bring it to the mechanic for its oil change or yearly inspection, I have tried to express what Gimme3steps provided in his quoted explanation of ABS above. I have experienced that same thing multiple times when coming to rapid stops (say from 60+ mph to an almost sudden stop). I can't even tell you the amount of times him and my father exchange amused looks and he goes ahead and changes the brake pads.
I am assuming from poking around on Google (following your responses above) that their replacement has resolved nothing, right? I am also assuming from the detailed diagrams of ABS's on the net that the sensor is not the problem.
I would love to get this problem fixed once and for all - correctly. This is a good car (other than this issue) and I plan to keep it for another few years. What, in your opinion needs to be done?
Is your car all wheel drive (AWD)? I don't remember an AWD Camry since the late eighties. I believe back then they called it all-trac or something like that.
Anyway, with regular front wheel drive, you do not have any thrust from the rear wheels.
If you're feeling the same thing on dry pavement from 60 mph under normal braking then you do have a problem. The most likely culprits are a wheel speed sensor or a split exciter ring on one of the axles.
Find a good mechanic with a scan tool that has the capability to read each wheel speed separately as you're driving. A test drive with one person driving and making stops while the other watches the wheel speeds will determine if a sensor is going bad. A bad sensor or ring will relay to the computer that wheel is turning slower than the rest (as if the wheel was skidding) and will activate the ABS even though you don't require it.
The most important thing is to find someone who knows what they're doing. You do not fool around with brake repairs. And don't let someone "pull the fuse and call it a day".
Last edited by Gimme3steps; 12-26-2010 at 04:22 PM..
cokatie, PLEASE, read my post before you panic and spend money for nothing.
Please.....read it closely.......now. Thank you!
I have and I did. But two things: (1) I AM used to driving in snow and I can handle the car in those conditions - I promise; (2) When it first occurred (at the traffic light), I was on a secondary road which definitely had more snow coverage/wet conditions than the main roads I had just exited off of. I was going slow. 20 mph in a 45 mph zone. I had PLENTY of time to stop for the light - or so I thought. The car kept just coasting after the grinding noise and pedal resistance. And I DID keep my foot firmly on the brake pedal. There was no pumping of the brakes.
At least I have now figured out why this never occured in any of my previous cars - they did not have ABS.
I have and I did. But two things: (1) I AM used to driving in snow and I can handle the car in those conditions - I promise; (2) When it first occurred (at the traffic light), I was on a secondary road which definitely had more snow coverage/wet conditions than the main roads I had just exited off of. I was going slow. 20 mph in a 45 mph zone. I had PLENTY of time to stop for the light - or so I thought. The car kept just coasting after the grinding noise and pedal resistance. And I DID keep my foot firmly on the brake pedal. There was no pumping of the brakes.
At least I have now figured out why this never occured in any of my previous cars - they did not have ABS.
All that racket you were hearing and feeling in the pedal was your cars anti lock system trying to stop you JUST AS IT SHOULD HAVE!
IN WET SNOW ,LIKE YOU WERE DRIVING IN, IT TAKES CHAINS OR STUDS TO NAVIGATE LIKE YOU WERE ON DRY ROADS! I'D SUSPECT THAT YOUR TIRES JUST COULD NOT GET A GRIP ON THE ROAD SURFACE ENOUGH TO STEER YOU AS YOU WANTED. WORN OUT TIRES (READ LITTLE OR NO TREAD) OR THE WRONG TIRES (NOT A GOOD GRIPPY ALL SEASON TREAD) IF YOUR TIRES CAN'T GRIP THEN THE WEIGHT OF THE CAR TIMES THE WET SNOW MEANS YOU'RE DRIVING A OUT OF CONTROL........SLED!!
THEN THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY THAT YOU HAVE NOT LEARNED HOW TO NAVIGATE WET SLOPPY SNOW. THAT TAKES TIME.........
DRIVING IN WET SNOW MEANS YOU DRIVE LIKE YOU HAVE A RAW EGG UNDER YOUR FOOT THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO BREAK.......EVERYTHING IS DONE VERY,VERY,VERY GENTLY WITH NO SUDDEN BRAKING OR ACCELERATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Ask good mechanic to check your brakes,
- Do NOTHING with your brakes on your own. Based on what you wrote
* You are not that experienced, as you think,
* It would be safer for all of us, including you, if you would slow down. 20 miles per hr is not "slow" in this weather conditions.
If possible, do not drive(do you have may be sick days or something?). Learn how to drive(use big empty parking lot). You do not want to experiment how much damage 20 miles per hr may cost you.
OP do you have a good set of snow tires on? I see the news reports and from what I see the whole north east is just getting pounded by snow storms.
With the weather you are getting back east grabbing a set of blizzaks might not be a bad idea to pick up if you are still running all season tires.
Based on one of the other posters in this thread, I've started to think about the purchase of new tires. In answer to your question though - no - I do not have snow tires. I really do love this car and when I drive it feel like it's just an extension of myself. Today, however, I was really let-down by its performance and did not feel safe or secure in it. For me to have even thought about just parking it at a shopping center and calling someone for a ride was completely alien.
- Ask good mechanic to check your brakes,
- Do NOTHING with your brakes on your own. Based on what you wrote
* You are not that experienced, as you think,
* It would be safer for all of us, including you, if you would slow down. 20 miles per hr is not "slow" in this weather conditions.
If possible, do not drive(do you have may be sick days or something?). Learn how to drive(use big empty parking lot). You do not want to experiment how much damage 20 miles per hr may cost you.
Seriously? I have been driving in this area since 1979. Because of that, I have driven through the blizzards of 2006, 2003 and 1996. In addition to that, having family in Toronto, I have frequently visited over Christmas/New Year seasons and have successfully driven there too. Since 1979, I have been in one accident - when I was 18. Nothing since. I have my Good Driver's Discount from my insurance company as further evidence. In addition to snow storm driving, I drive quite frequently in Europe - largely in rural parts where the roads are narrow, sharps turns are frequent, the lighting is scarce, animals wandering onto the road are to be expected, and the need to be forever vigilant of pedestrians is a must. Not to mention, I am driving on the other side of the road, the other side of the car, and generally doing it a car with manual transmission.
I stated at the beginning of my original post that the snow had just been falling for about 1 hour in LI when I set out. It was not coming down at the rapid rate it later developed into. The roads were in good condition, and I was driving in the right lane since I had my 87 year old Mom in the car with me. That left the middle and left lanes open for the other cars happily passing me since I was going a good bit slower than them. Upon entrance to the secondary road, I had to stop at 2 traffic lights where I had no problem. It was at the 3rd set of traffic lights where the car took on a life of its own. In honesty, since we were going to visit my brothers grave at Pinelawn, I took the opportunity to get down on the ground under the front wheels to see if there was any sort of ice build-up. Since there was little snow on the ground at that point, I figured it might be accumulation from the wet roads gathering and freezing by the brakes. I also took the time to test the car to see what side it was pulling to, what circumstances were causing the grinding to kick in, etc. The answer was that ANY time at this point that I touched the brakes - whether from 4 mph to 15 mph, the same thing was occuring.
While I believe that I am always open to learn new things, I don't particularly think a jaunt or test drive around an empty parking lot is going to help me in this current situation. Perhaps if the two MEN who I had trusted with this car and its upkeep had listened to me 3 years ago when I first noticed the problem on dry surface roads, rather than being amused by my attempts at describing the problem, I would not be in this situation now. In saying that, I actually think the guy who has been my mechanic IS good at what he does - but the ball was dropped on this one.
Given the current weather situation, I don't believe he will be open tomorrow to have a look. And I have further bad news for you Barrier. Since my father is undergoing radiation therapy for cancer at NorthShore Hospital, I WILL be on the roads again tomorrow travelling from the South Shore to the North. Mind you, we'll be going in his car since I'm not willing to risk it in my car.
I would love to give you the easy out that "the woman" must be the problem, but in this case it is simply not so. It would appear to be the car. And to further relieve your worries about me not being qualified to drive, my father will be the passenger. He was both a long distance and local driver/mover of large rigs, part of the Teamsters, who hauled wide loads and hazardous material across the country. He was also the one who originally taught me to drive. He prefers, due to his age, to relinquish the wheel to me. And if you have any knowledge of the trucking business in NY/NJ, and down on the waterfronts making deliveries, you will know he was not an easy teacher. To my benefit.
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