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Old 07-15-2011, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,100 posts, read 28,541,384 times
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Other than eliminate the brand, what do you think Ford should do with Lincoln to make it a luxury competitor? Personally, I think they need to go RWD. They need to see who is the best selling luxury car maker in the world and focus their cars to compete with that brand. Leave behind the land barge names of the past but don't go letters and numbers for names here in USA. if they take a page from BMW and make a two door performance model of the midsize sedan and call it a Continental Mark and a roman numeral number or leave out the Continental name. Don't shoot to compete with Chrysler or Buick. Shoot for Lexus, Mercedes, and BMW.
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Old 07-15-2011, 04:25 PM
 
Location: 'Murica
1,302 posts, read 2,949,894 times
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I agree with Lincoln doing RWD, but the E-class/5-series segment is tough to get a foothold on. I think Lincoln should do a more upscale Chrysler 300C type of vehicle, with the 5.0 Mustang engine completely intact. It would end up costing as much as a 5-series, but with more emphasis on luxury over sport (what the 5-series is to sportiness, the RWD Lincoln should be to luxury). It should be edgy, yet elegant, and should have suicide rear doors.

For the entry-level, Lincoln should do a more upscale Volkswagen CC type of vehicle. It would occupy the same segment as the current Fusion-based sedan, but it would look a lot less boring and a lot more exciting. The optional hybrid drivetrain currently being offered would be a good draw for buyers of this type of vehicle.

There's definitely room for Lincoln to do a luxury coupe based on the Mustang, but it would absolutely have to have a refined independent rear suspension setup in order to differentiate itself from its roots. Maybe a longer wheelbase for a more accomodating rear seat, and perhaps a folding hardtop for the convertible version.
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Old 07-15-2011, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
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Other than the Continental Mark series, did Lincoln ever have a performance car?
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
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Ford claims they will spend $1B to revitalize Lincoln. They want to position Lincoln as sportier than Lexus and more luxurious than BMW.

Ford Buffs Its Lincoln Brand - WSJ.com

Not a bad strategy, but it won't work of they don't deliver the cars.

If it were me:

1. No Lincoln should look remotely similar to any Ford; Lincoln should have the most advanced engines Ford makes.

2. They need a "sporty luxury coupe" with at least 400 Hp. They can base it on the Mustang chassis, but it should have independent rear suspension. I think it should have more Hp than the Mustang but not as much as a Shelby.

3. Deliver a distinctive engineering theme vs. Cadillac and Lexus. They could use lighter weight materials, and start using carbon fiber in visible places.

4. Can the Navigator entirely. The blingy full size SUV will be uncool as fuel costs go up. No high class celeb wants to be seen in a fuel pig - and Lincoln should deliver vehicles that "cool" people should want.

5. No oddities like the MKT.

6. Fire whoever styled the current vehicles. The grill of the MKX and Navigator is hideous.

7. The MKZ chassis is a good one. But that car needs AWD and 300 Hp to be interesting. It cannot betray its Ford Fusion origins.

8. They can continue to sell the Town Car, but do not advertise it other than to let people know it still exists.

9. Ford has some good technology to deploy in Lincoln, especially engines. The new 5.0, the Ecoboost, hybrid, etc. could all be differentiators for Lincoln but they must be different (better) from Ford.
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Old 07-15-2011, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,100 posts, read 28,541,384 times
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What about using some of it's Aussie tech which is RWD? other than the Falcon, I'm not that familiar with what Ford Aussie has to offer. Would a Falcon based Lincoln sedan be a good 3 and 5 series (stretched and shrunk in dimensions for different sizes) competitor? If so, that online six shoild also be brought for luxury smoothness and torque power delivery.
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Northeast Tennessee
7,305 posts, read 28,236,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
Other than eliminate the brand, what do you think Ford should do with Lincoln to make it a luxury competitor? Personally, I think they need to go RWD. They need to see who is the best selling luxury car maker in the world and focus their cars to compete with that brand. Leave behind the land barge names of the past but don't go letters and numbers for names here in USA. if they take a page from BMW and make a two door performance model of the midsize sedan and call it a Continental Mark and a roman numeral number or leave out the Continental name. Don't shoot to compete with Chrysler or Buick. Shoot for Lexus, Mercedes, and BMW.
Ditto what you said!!
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:30 PM
 
28,803 posts, read 47,719,218 times
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Redesign that God awful snout!!! I cringe every time I see one.
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Northwest Indiana
815 posts, read 2,999,728 times
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There is so many things Ford could do with Lincoln. Lincoln could really be great again if they did it right. It needs to be more upscale then it is today, if it is to survive as a separate brand. Otherwise its not worth keeping.

First off, no more rebadged Fords!!! If you can get it as a regular Ford, it can't be a Lincoln. Period.
Ford is big enough to produce vehicles solely for Lincoln, the fancy versions of regular Fords should be sold by Ford as Fords. It will never be seen as a serious luxury brand if they share a little bit fancier version of a regular Ford vehicle. If there were any upcoming Mercury's left, make them Fords, don't try passing them off as Lincolns.

They really don't need a huge line up, some smartly placed models could cover the market, its not the hugest market but yet an important one. They need to bring back the "exclusive" part of the brand.

Luxury brands do have a problem that they didn't have back in the 1960's, 1970's and earlier. A regular car can be pretty fancy today. I mean Kia's have power door locks, windows, a/c, fancy sound systems, etc. things that you were once things found only on luxury brands. So a luxury car has to offer a lot more then they once did.

I think that Lincoln (and Cadillac for that matter) should focus more on what is today's American luxury car. They need to stop chasing and copying German and Japanese luxury cars. They will never win at that race. If you think about it, the Japanese have more of a luxury car identity then the American brands do now. They have only been selling luxury cars for the last twenty years (in the US anyway) vs a hundred for Lincoln and Cadillac. They need to live on their own unique identities, an identity it once had and could have again with the right cars. They need to compete on their own strengths as American cars. I doubt that many baby-boomers are going to buy any luxury car with an American name no matter what happens so trying to get them with fake BMW's and Luxus' is a lost cause. That's OK, there are plenty of people here in the US and abroad that are hungry for a real American luxury car to reappear.

I think three main models would be enough (different trim levels could bring in more variety). There should be nothing priced below $45,000. You will never rehab a luxury brand if you sell anything below that price. I don't think they need a "entry level" model so much, it can cheapen the brand.

They should not offer any model with less then a V-8 under the hood. Yeah, I know its not the 1960's anymore, that we are stuck with nonsense like CAFE and many V-6's are more powerful then ever. But this is a luxury brand, a V-6 can be had on a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry. Keep the plastic to a minimum too.

They could have for the first vehicle, a full size sedan with a V-8, RWD with a starting price of about $50,000 (up to about $70,000). I love the idea of the suicide doors (no pillar in the middle would be really awesome). OK, that feature could be seen as a bit hokey by some, but in a elegant design can be beautiful and more practical then you think (they can open very wide). Bentley is offering a car with suicide doors for over 300 grand, so why not? Make sure it doesn't look anything like the Taurus (which is a very nice car, but isn't a luxury car by any means, though it can cost 45 grand itself). This car would likely be the volume leader for Lincoln. Maybe a longer version, for a town car service, limo type thing. Trim versions could be luxury or performance, tuning does a lot. Don't hobble the cars in any way too.

The second vehicle would be coupe. I could be a good sized car, with RWD or all-wheel drive. A V-8 could be the base, maybe a optional V-12 or supercharger something like that. A convertible version is a must. Price start at 70k and go to about 90-100k. I remember a Cadillac concept a few years ago with the V-16 and there were tons of people wanting to see it. It felt more like an American car then most of its models, and I wish they had brought it to market. Something like that. It would be a dream car.

The third would be the marque model. It would be a sedan, have a base V-8 with V-12 or V-16 options. RWD's or all wheel drive, suicide doors and a $100,000 starting price. Bigger then a full size car, it could be the car people buy when they can't afford the Bentley. A limousine version. Maybe even a four door convertible!! Maybe even good enough to carry the Continental name!! They could even build a version to be the the next US Presidential limo.

They don't have to be copy the past but they shouldn't ignore the past either. They have a lot of history that the others don't have. What's wrong with cool sheet metal (or carbon fiber), leather, wood trim and horsepower?

I think American luxury can compete on its own terms. Of course they need top quality or the game is over before they leave the dealers floor. I say give the dealers reason to remodel their showrooms!

Last edited by richb; 07-16-2011 at 12:43 AM..
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Old 07-16-2011, 05:51 AM
 
Location: San Diego A.K.A "D.A.Y.G.O City"
1,996 posts, read 4,772,094 times
Reputation: 2743
Honestly with the much crowded luxury car market, and the serious competition of the likes of the Germans and Japanese, Lincoln really needs to go even higher upscale luxury if it truly wants to survive and be successful again.


People used to buy Lincolns because of it's exclusivity, Lincolns were very stately cars, not so much in the flashy department, but it was almost like their cars at one point in time were very old money and built to a higher degree of luxury compared to it's competition. Lincolns were very businessman like cars, more professionally looking I might add. The 60's were the best and highly distinctive, the mid to late 70's was when the Mark's and Town Cars had a very serious stately appearance to them.

Anyways, Lincoln needs that kind of exclusivity again. Personally when I think of luxury cars today, I see them in this order.

The everyday luxury car brand, not super high end like Rolls, Bentley, Maybach.

1. Audi
2. Mercedes
3 Lexus-BMW
4.Cadillac
5. Infiniti
6. Acura
7. Lincoln

Since luxury goodies are in just about every economy car today, such as back up camera's, navigation, Ford Sync technology, power this, power that....something needs to be offered from Lincoln that nobody else has. Either it's in their styling, or a specific feature that stands out from the rest of the competition. I mean look at the Equus, reclining rear seats with seat rests! That car has everything at a decent price compared to it's rivals. Full air suspension that is adjustable, things like this Lincoln and also Cadillac need to start offering in it's cars. The problem is, they don't have a car as luxurious like Equus or an Audi A8.

The Town Car doesn't feel special, the DTS doesn't feel special, luxury car buyers want something distinctive and unique in their purchase. Since Lincoln has lagged behind for so long, maybe upmarket past Cadillac will be the only way for the buying public to take notice. It also wouldn't hurt if they had an awesome marketing campaign like Chrysler has put out with the 300. Lincolns advertising arm is so weak and uninspiring that I feel it's hurting them more than anything. Their commercials don't lure people into dealerships, it's like the people who made them were confused on their targeted market. Is it older people or younger people you are trying to attract? Pick one and leave it be Idiots!
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Old 07-16-2011, 02:07 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,858,743 times
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ford has to be careful in how they refurbish the lincoln brand. it cant be too high performance as they will cut into the performance ford buyers. it cant concentrate too much on luxury either as it becomes an old mans car. the styling does have to get away from the ford influence, but still use the various ford chassis. i agree that the grills are hideous, but firing the people who designed them isnt good enough, they need to be executed in as horrible a manner as the law allows.

clean styling, performance at least equal to what cadillac has, and luxury along the lines of mercedes, and bmw like handling, and you have something that will sell in the upscale markets.

as for engines. the ecoboost engine from the taurus sho, with perhaps a bit more power, is a good choice when coupled to an all wheel drive system.

for an optional engine, the 5.0 coyote engine with a supercharger making about 100 more hp that the ecoboost V6 is also an excellent choice. and for a real hot rod lincoln, perhaps a supercharged 6.2 V8.
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