Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I thought everyone knew consumer reportrts was biased towards Toyota, and car and driver is biased towards BMW.
The problem is consumer reports only polls consumer report readers.
A "boring" guy who doesnt research on his own, look deeper into what makes cars work, what doesn't and basically pays someone to tell them what car is good. Is the type of guy that thinks a tan on tan Toyota will always be the most reliable.
You can those things are a joke you will see something like a Toyota matrix given stellar reviews, then read a pontiac vibe which is the same thing, same tranny, same engine, get complaints about drivetrain reliability. Just shows there sampling is flawed. They do it with other shared platforms.
I will take their opinion into consideration but not blindly follow them.
These CR reports are not necessarily "biased" but calling them reliability surveys is misleading. They are measuring customer satisfaction of new cars which can be influenced by actual reliability, or other factors.
True new model reliability would be ranked based on warranty claim rate. However, manufacturers hold this data very close to the vest.
Irony, consurmer reports are filled out by butthurt people. Ford drops 10 spots all because people can't figure out the shifter or radio dial. Porshce drops 17 spots in one year? How many consumer reports was actually returned on the Cayenne...one and probably some old man with more money than sense enough to operate high end cars.
Let me guess: Every Toyota, and a few Hondas?
EDIT:
Well surprise, surprise! Among all three Toyota brands, and both Honda brands, we find Mazda.
C'mon, domestics! Keep up the good work, and don't rest on your laurels when you're on to a good thing. THAT is where you guys consistently fall behind. The Japanese brands fully update their popular cars every 4-5 years, whether they "need" it or not. Do that, and improve at every opportunity.
Actually, the cars from Ford that everyone is complaining about ARE the updated models...Of all the problems that go wrong with cars, the thing they choose to hang Ford on is a quirky transmission and MyFordTouch. Go find something else to complain about people, seriously.
Not butthurt at all, I don't have any skin in the game. Personally I buy what I prefer/need and know to be a good purchase. In work I deal with a ton of vocational fleets so I see a lot of different stuff and the backend issues they have. The parent organization of my company is also a very large dealer network and we sell the following:
Ford, Lincoln, BMW, Mini, Audi, Bentley, Cadillac, Honda, Infiniti, Rolls Royce, Scion, Toyota and Volvo.
You can tell from the list, that it runs the gamut and I see a lot of cars and talk a lot to the people who sell them and fix them. My issue is that the reality is often very different than what is represented in the these surveys. Lately this has been really apparent as there have been wild swings in the rankings for both JD Power and CR.
My only point is to explain the methodology and how they represent the data. I personally think CR's process is flawed. Yes, they're consistent in how they go about it, but their sampling is limited to what their own customers report and their "feelings" about certain cars. This was the "unbiased" company that gave a blanket "recommended" rating to everything built by Toyota when even their own data showed issues in certain models. FWIW, the manufacturers will market their recommended ratings, but they don't buy into CR's process.
JD Power works a little differently and their entire process is based on collecting a wide sampling of data and then selling that data back to the manufacturers. For the record, Toyota was JD Powers first client, though some want to paint them as irrelevant domestic lovers. Even with JDP they only release very high level data with no quantification. Hence how someone complaining about seat stitching style is counted as a complaint akin to someone upset over a blown engine. The real data is only available to the manufacturers who pay for it.
The more interesting survey and one JDP doesn't release is the "good" survey where they count the positive things people say about the cars. There are cars out there that get 100 complaints per thousand and are considered average, but that same car may also get 150 good responses per thousand. The complaints could be something like, the seat doesn't move far enough back and the positives are things like fantastic drivetrain and perfect control layout. Which is more important?
I guess my only point is that people shouldn't take these surveys and treat them like the Holy Gospel according to St. Consumer Reports. They are interesting to read when making a decision, but you need to do a lot of independent homework, not just buy what they recommend this week as that is likely to change the next time they do the survey. Hence why Porsche's where the most reliable cars in the world last year and now they are apparently the worst.
Until you or anyone else comes with a better survey, its simply a pretty solid data point. I RARELY have seen these brands run contrary to results. Porsche went down b/c they have a small lineup, the Cayenne is all new and crushed them again, just like the first gen. Most people are not enthusiasts, even if they can post in an auto forum. They scream when the data doesn't support their favorites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Damon
Where is Range Rover? They are usually at the bottom of the heap. Did they fail so badly they just fell off the cliff?
They have as many models as Scion and sell a enough vehicles to constitute an accurate survey.
Probably off the cliff. Scion usually SUCKS so I assume Toyota finally got serious about them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangEater82
I thought everyone knew consumer reportrts was biased towards Toyota, and car and driver is biased towards BMW.
The problem is consumer reports only polls consumer report readers.
A "boring" guy who doesnt research on his own, look deeper into what makes cars work, what doesn't and basically pays someone to tell them what car is good. Is the type of guy that thinks a tan on tan Toyota will always be the most reliable.
You can those things are a joke you will see something like a Toyota matrix given stellar reviews, then read a pontiac vibe which is the same thing, same tranny, same engine, get complaints about drivetrain reliability. Just shows there sampling is flawed. They do it with other shared platforms.
I will take their opinion into consideration but not blindly follow them.
Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
As of late CR has ripped Toyota and Honda new ones so that argument doesn't work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTRay
Irony, consurmer reports are filled out by butthurt people. Ford drops 10 spots all because people can't figure out the shifter or radio dial. Porshce drops 17 spots in one year? How many consumer reports was actually returned on the Cayenne...one and probably some old man with more money than sense enough to operate high end cars.
but the Cayenne was the worst model and killed Porsche's ranking.
Actually if I wanted to buy a new car I would go to yahoo autos as there are a lot of reviews from REAL OWNERS. Highly underrated and informative.
If you plan on getting a used car, CR is not the number 1 source for that. The internet is. Go through the forums specific to the car you're interested in to get an idea about what your car is like. These people on the forums can tell you everything good or bad about the car you are looking for. I don't drink the CR kool-aid as it is somewhat very cheesy and not that interesting.
Actually if I wanted to buy a new car I would go to yahoo autos as there are a lot of reviews from REAL OWNERS. Highly underrated and informative.
If you plan on getting a used car, CR is not the number 1 source for that. The internet is. Go through the forums specific to the car you're interested in to get an idea about what your car is like. These people on the forums can tell you everything good or bad about the car you are looking for. I don't drink the CR kool-aid as it is somewhat very cheesy and not that interesting.
Exactly..... Lol ifyou get technical, I believe my car is a consumer reports best pick, when it was newer and later years now its a used car to avoid. Lol...
Actually if I wanted to buy a new car I would go to yahoo autos as there are a lot of reviews from REAL OWNERS. Highly underrated and informative.
I wouldn't trust any online ratings, given the susceptibility to trolls. I'd take the empirical approach and examine the cars on my own, and if I end up with a lemon, then I'd write it off as bad luck and find another vehicle -- possibly even the same model if the lemon was fun to drive while it worked. The chances of getting burnt twice are infinitesimal, regardless of the automaker.
I'm surprised to see Jeep move up so much. Maybe Chrysler's push for quality was actually real this time...
I recently bought a new Jeep Grand Cherokee (black) and I'm so impressed with the quality inside and out.
Last edited by InLondon; 11-12-2011 at 05:50 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
