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The German car ownership experience is like this...
Imagine driving down a very dimly light road in a driving rain storm with the windows open, no headlights on, and wipers on the slowest intermittent setting. At every stop sign you are forced to throw a 100 dollar bill out the window and then keep driving.
Oh, and Lexus reliability is not overrated. One of my friends has a 1990 LS400 with 190K on the clock and it still runs like a champ and every feature still works perfectly. My Benz has 56K on it and it can't hold an alignment, and one of the xenon headlamps is already starting to fade out.
Anyone who believes Lexus makes superior cars is not concerned with performance driving at all. You just can't have both. And Lexus quality is overrated.
You're right. Two different classes of cars with exception of the M-B aspect. Audi and BMW definately are the "driver" cars of the lot. Do I think they are superior cars? No. Do they offer value for certain drivers? Yes. The GS400 from the late '90's is a pretty decent ride. Performance with luxury. What's so bad about that?
If the quality is overrated, I haven't seen it. I sell auto parts for a living, I know what breaks and what doesn't. M-B and Audi top the list of cars with major problems in their segment. Lexus is not even in my top twenty.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,330 posts, read 54,400,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HobokenGuy
I think the 5000CS Turbo fiasco in the 80's killed Audi and they are now starting to rebound. I wish the same, terrible fate for Mercedes-Benz.
The 60 Minutes hatchet job about unintended acceleration allegations aimed at the Audi 5000 knocked them down but Audi's come back strong, I think they have the best interiors in their class and no steenking I-drive
For those saying the BMW 3 Series was not that good driving then try the sports package and you WILL see a difference. I have an 2006 325i w/ the sports package and it truly is a DRIVERS car. It is amazing. The ONLY down for us has been the blasted run flat tires. I have 18K miles on my bimmer and they are at this moment putting on the THIRD set of tires. The first two were the Pirelli run flats and I refuse to use those again. Pirellis are made for the track not city driving. We are still going w/ the run flats but Continentals this time. Other than that I have no complaints at all on the BMW. I'm currently in a 2008 528i that handles like a dream. It does have the i-drive that my own BMW does not. It is okay but I can live w/o it. Hubby wants the M5. The BMW's are holding their values VERY WELL! I was actually shocked last week when I checked it out and I am not upside down at all. From what we have been told they are pretty much going to hold their value and not get much lower.
I looked at the M-B, BMW and Audi before I got the 325 and was not impressed w/ Audi nor the reports on them. M-B dropped their warranty program so that did them in for me. If they can't stand behind their product and have to shrink their warranty........ no thanks. One friend had problems w/ the M-B paint and found out that is a problem others are having. Audi just does not have the class about it that a BMW or M-B has. I'm going on the M-B C-drive in a few weeks and test driving them. Not planning on buying one but still want the chance to check the new 08 out. As for Lexus, no thanks. As they age they just don't hold up very well in appeance or price. You see TONS of teenagers driving them and they are not well taken care of. I've also noticed the paints tend to get somewhat dull looking after a few years. They do have some new models that look great (especially in black) but I don't know the longterm on that one and passed. BMW just stands out more over time.
Not true, BMW does in fact offer AWD in several models. Any BMW with "x" in the model signifies an AWD vehicle.
For example:
328xi
335xi
528xi
535xi
Thanks for the reminder. lol I cant believe I forgot about the x series. I obviously knew about the SUV and AWD, but forgot about the 3 and 5 series AWD option. DOH. However, theyre still the most pure of the 3. You cant get a S4 or a S* Audi with RWD. And I also like the fact that the M series are only RWD. Ill die the day they make a AWD M5, M3 or M6.
Anyone who believes Lexus makes superior cars is not concerned with performance driving at all. You just can't have both. And Lexus quality is overrated.
The IS is not sporty? And Lexus never claimed to be sporty, theyre the straight-line luxo cruisers of the bunch, meticulously engineered. And to address the sporting-potential issue, theyre going to start offering performance versions of certain models.
If you think their quality is overrated, youve got another thing coming. Theyre the most solid cars Ive ever driven, and theyre as reliable as anything else out there, even more so.
For those saying the BMW 3 Series was not that good driving then try the sports package and you WILL see a difference...
My main concern with the 3-series, and this is a complaint I have across the industry, is bloat. No matter how well-tuned a suspension is, size and weight still affect the feel and precision of cornering. A suspension setup can only fight the laws of physics so much. Compare today's 3-series to that of 20 years ago: the wheelbase has grown six inches (great for ride compliance, not so great for handling precision), overall length is up 8 inches, overall width up 7 inches, and curb weight is up a hefty 600lbs. Today's 3-series is bigger and heavier than the 5-series of 20 years ago. BMW has acknowledged that it "bloated" its way out of the entry-level luxury performance market by introducing the 1-series, and I'd sooner get one of those than a new 3-series.
My main concern with the 3-series, and this is a complaint I have across the industry, is bloat. No matter how well-tuned a suspension is, size and weight still affect the feel and precision of cornering. A suspension setup can only fight the laws of physics so much. Compare today's 3-series to that of 20 years ago: the wheelbase has grown six inches (great for ride compliance, not so great for handling precision), overall length is up 8 inches, overall width up 7 inches, and curb weight is up a hefty 600lbs. Today's 3-series is bigger and heavier than the 5-series of 20 years ago. BMW has acknowledged that it "bloated" its way out of the entry-level luxury performance market by introducing the 1-series, and I'd sooner get one of those than a new 3-series.
I think thats the problem with most cars these days (minus Lotus). They pork em up and compensate by adding hp. Not exactly the way to do it, but the consumers seem pretty happy. Its the enthuisiasts who are pissed, and Im one of them.
The 60 Minutes hatchet job about unintended acceleration allegations aimed at the Audi 5000 knocked them down but Audi's come back strong, I think they have the best interiors in their class and no steenking I-drive
Without a doubt, they have top notch interiors. When I was about to buy the 650, I also looked at the A6 and Q7 vehicles, and I really liked the fit and finish, but Audi still has terrible electrical problems.
The IS is not sporty? And Lexus never claimed to be sporty, theyre the straight-line luxo cruisers of the bunch, meticulously engineered. And to address the sporting-potential issue, theyre going to start offering performance versions of certain models.
If you think their quality is overrated, youve got another thing coming. Theyre the most solid cars Ive ever driven, and theyre as reliable as anything else out there, even more so.
I agree 100% I get into my fathers LS460 and it's rock solid. The Acura RL and LS460 are really great cars for those looking to sacrafice a tiny amount of handling for far more superior reliability and resale.
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And Lexus never claimed to be sporty, theyre the straight-line luxo cruisers of the bunch, meticulously engineered. And to address the sporting-potential issue, theyre going to start offering performance versions of certain models.
