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Unfortunately, the introduction of diesel particulate filters on 2007+ diesels in the US changed the game on cold weather diesel operation. My experience with DPF is that extended idling will not fill up the DPF quickly IF the engine is at operating temperature. If the engine is NOT up to operating temperature or not maintaining it, the DPF can fill pretty quickly. With the exception of Ford Super Duty diesels equipped with "stationary re-gen" option, the only way to clear a DPF that is at or approaching 100% full is to "drive to clear"--meaning driving the vehicle at speeds of at least 30 mph with the engine at operating temperature for up to 30 minutes. Recognizing that such a regimen was not always practical, especially for work trucks, Ford offers an option where, if the DPF is calling for cleaning and the truck can't be moved, the driver can initiate a "stationary re-gen" which runs the RPM up something like 2,000 RPM for 20-45 minutes to clear the DPF. Obviously, re-gens, either a stationary or "active" re-gen, can crunch fuel economy if they have to run often. My work truck is equipped with that option, but I've never had to use it, simply because most of the truck's miles are highway miles and I try to avoid extended idling if I can.
Much as I love diesels, for the typical driver in a climate with very cold winter temperatures, I no longer (since MY 2007) recommend a diesel vehicle. In my own case, I avoid driving the diesel pickup in winter if I can; I have a Prius and a beater gasoline 4WD that see most of the winter duty. Though gas engines use more fuel at idle and low RPM than a comparable size diesel engine (which is why a gas engine will warm up faster in very cold temperatures), that gap has narrowed as fuel injection systems have become more sophisticated. Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI), which is now becoming more common as a fuel delivery method to gasoline engines, will narrow the gap some more.
Another poster made the comment that idling a cold car to make the vehicle safe to drive (e.g., keeping the windows defrosted) could be considered a legitimate reason for extended idling. I can agree with that. I disagree that warming the vehicle just so the occupants can get into a 75° interior is really necessary. As one who has driven in cold climates for most of my life, my rule is to either dress adequately or have proper survival gear in the vehicle to be able to keep from freezing to death even if the car's engine isn't running or can't run. Dressed adequately, I can stand driving a vehicle that isn't toasty warm in the interior for long enough for the engine to reach operating temperature. Wusses who can't do that probably should move to a warmer climate.
Yes, over here we carry a duffle bag with winter gear in case of a breakdown (my whole family does). But I still warm the cab by letting the car idle from 10-18 minutes (keep in mind that it's mostly way below zero outside the house when i start the car; -20 F right now). I just press the remote start button from the house, and the same at work before I drive home. By the time I get to my cart he ice on the windshield has partially softened enough for scraping off, and the glass surfaces in the cab have been defogged, plus it's warm air being blown on me by the heater instead of -20 air. Then three or four miles of highway driving turns the warm air hot
Something else a lot of people don't know is that the bag full of winter clothing is not heated. It means that if you have a breakdown and the cab is still cold the clothes in the bag are as cold as outside the car. If your body is already cold it will take quite a long time for you to warm up after putting the emergency gear on. In very cold weather you any exposed flesh (skin, face, hands, ears, etc.) can get frostbitten within a few minutes or even seconds.
They should be dressed for cold weather, just as anyone else should. What happens to them if the engine in the car can't run to keep them warm? That can happen out on the road, and, if one happens to be traveling in a rural area in such conditions (which I often do), it can be awhile before outside help shows up.
Yes, they should be. However, you must either not have children or had them before modern car seat regulations were in effect.
It is actually (and idiotically) recommended that a child in a car seat not wear heavy coats, because the bulk of the coat prevents the car seat straps from adequately and appropriately securing the child. They actually recommend that you take off the coat before putting the child into a car seat, and then put it back on (within the vehicle) after you get to your destination. I'm sure this method works well with crash test dummy toddlers that don't resist. Real life children, on the other hand...
So, if you ignore the recommendations and try buckling up with a heavy coat, you often have to adjust the straps to a larger size. When you're in an intermediate climate (ie, not Alaska or the Dakotas or Canada where winter is predictably d@mn cold all the time), and switch back and forth between heavy coats for temperatures in the teens and light jackets for highs in the 40s and 50s, you can either adjust the car seat straps every couple of days depending on the weather (not happening), have them squeezed into a car seat with super tight straps on cold days, or really free and loose strapped in on warm days.
Now, related to the main post, I think most people would agree- modern GASOLINE ENGINES may not need more than 30 second to a minute to warm up in normal (as opposed to extreme) cold conditions before driving without damaging the ENGINE. However, there are other safety concerns, such as the need for the defroster to work, that can require more extended periods of warm up, less engine damage occur because the driver took off at 30 seconds, couldn't see where he was going, and had an accident.
Yes, over here we carry a duffle bag with winter gear in case of a breakdown (my whole family does). But I still warm the cab by letting the car idle from 10-18 minutes (keep in mind that it's mostly way below zero outside the house when i start the car; -20 F right now). I just press the remote start button from the house, and the same at work before I drive home. By the time I get to my cart he ice on the windshield has partially softened enough for scraping off, and the glass surfaces in the cab have been defogged, plus it's warm air being blown on me by the heater instead of -20 air. Then three or four miles of highway driving turns the warm air hot
Something else a lot of people don't know is that the bag full of winter clothing is not heated. It means that if you have a breakdown and the cab is still cold the clothes in the bag are as cold as outside the car. If your body is already cold it will take quite a long time for you to warm up after putting the emergency gear on. In very cold weather you any exposed flesh (skin, face, hands, ears, etc.) can get frostbitten within a few minutes or even seconds.
As I have noted repeatedly, warmup time is necessary in bitterly cold temperatures--20 below zero certainly counts as that. That said, most people do not live in climates that get that cold. There's a big difference between 20 below and 20 above. As for the article, the part about letting a diesel warm up is contradictory. On one hand, it talks about letting the vehicle sit to warm up for some extended period, then talks (correctly) about the wear and damage that can occur from "wet-stacking"--that is, partially burned fuel washing down the cylinder walls and contaminating the crankcase oil. I guess that they don't realize that idling a cold diesel engine at insufficient RPM to get complete combustion is the quickest way to "wet-stack" a diesel engine. I would dare say that I've been around diesel engines of all types probably longer than most of the writers for that magazine have been alive. For diesels, the best way to prevent cold weather starting damage is . . . block heater, block heater, block heater. The best way to prevent diesel engine damage in severe cold weather from extended idling is use of an elevated idle control.
It was 0 today when I was ready to leave work. I fired up my remote start from my phone, and while the walk to the car was chilly, the car's interior was defrosted and comfortable for my drive home.
It was 0 today when I was ready to leave work. I fired up my remote start from my phone, and while the walk to the car was chilly, the car's interior was defrosted and comfortable for my drive home.
It was -27 this morning:
2012 Corolla parked on the front driveway, plugged to an electrical outlet for nearly 3 hours. It has been winterized (antifreeze to around -40 F., block heater, oil pan heater, and battery heater). Pressed the remote's start button for an 18-minute run just when the AC electrical timer outside turned the car heaters off.
Seventeen minutes later I went outside, put the key in the ignition switch to keep the motor running, unplugged the electrical cord, and got on the driver's seat. The heater had been set for maximum heat, and the blower to the maximum speed. The air blown was still below warm since the temperature gage was still pointing at C. The seats and everything in the car were still cold, but not as cold as being outside the car. I didn't dare turn the radio on because that would result on blown speakers.
Drove the car out of the driveway, and then to the nearest highway ramp less than 1/4 mile away. Accelerated carefully not to overwork the cold motor until reaching 55MPH. Meanwhile I can hear the "thump, thump, thump" noise the small flat spot on each tire develops when the car is parked overnight (more on that later). About ten miles later the heater is starting to blow warm air, the temperature gage's pointer has moved to the first mark up toward normal operating temperature. By then the tires are sounding a lot smoother, too.
About 18 miles of driving the gage is now pointing to normal operating temperature (two marks up from C), and the air is nice and hot. A couple of miles later I turn the radio on, but keep the volume low enough to avoid damaging the speakers. The tires are nice and quiet, plus smooth-riding.
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When it gets perhaps around -25 and colder, the lowest portion of each tire in contact with the pavement ,or whatever the parking or driveway is made of, loses its round shape (becomes strait or flat). After driving for a few miles the flat spot becomes less noticeable (less noise), and gradually disappears.
A truck with a diesel motor takes a lot longer to provide warm air. In here we let our diesel motors idle for quite a lot longer than gasoline motors, although all motors have block heaters and the rest. And if on the road, away from an electrical outlet, we just let the vehicle idle. Otherwise one risks not being able to start the motor if left turned off for over an hour. If the temperature is colder, then we just don't turn it off for hours at a time. That's why you won't see truck drivers shutting their rigs off by the roadside or a truck stops, or just because they may be inside the truck and comfortable (not freezing to death). In places where is hot I imagine that truckers want to stay cool with the AC turned on, but I don't really know.
All of those articles can say anything they want but I have been warming up our vehicle for years and will continue to do so. It is a small price for me to pay for peace of mind and getting into a warm vehicle that I can clearly see out of all windows because they have already been defrosted, defogged and cleaned off on the outside.
2012 Corolla parked on the front driveway, plugged to an electrical outlet for nearly 3 hours. It has been winterized (antifreeze to around -40 F., block heater, oil pan heater, and battery heater). Pressed the remote's start button for an 18-minute run just when the AC electrical timer outside turned the car heaters off.
Seventeen minutes later I went outside, put the key in the ignition switch to keep the motor running, unplugged the electrical cord, and got on the driver's seat. The heater had been set for maximum heat, and the blower to the maximum speed. The air blown was still below warm since the temperature gage was still pointing at C. The seats and everything in the car were still cold, but not as cold as being outside the car. I didn't dare turn the radio on because that would result on blown speakers.
Drove the car out of the driveway, and then to the nearest highway ramp less than 1/4 mile away. Accelerated carefully not to overwork the cold motor until reaching 55MPH. Meanwhile I can hear the "thump, thump, thump" noise the small flat spot on each tire develops when the car is parked overnight (more on that later). About ten miles later the heater is starting to blow warm air, the temperature gage's pointer has moved to the first mark up toward normal operating temperature. By then the tires are sounding a lot smoother, too.
About 18 miles of driving the gage is now pointing to normal operating temperature (two marks up from C), and the air is nice and hot. A couple of miles later I turn the radio on, but keep the volume low enough to avoid damaging the speakers. The tires are nice and quiet, plus smooth-riding.
-----------
When it gets perhaps around -25 and colder, the lowest portion of each tire in contact with the pavement ,or whatever the parking or driveway is made of, loses its round shape (becomes strait or flat). After driving for a few miles the flat spot becomes less noticeable (less noise), and gradually disappears.
A truck with a diesel motor takes a lot longer to provide warm air. In here we let our diesel motors idle for quite a lot longer than gasoline motors, although all motors have block heaters and the rest. And if on the road, away from an electrical outlet, we just let the vehicle idle. Otherwise one risks not being able to start the motor if left turned off for over an hour. If the temperature is colder, then we just don't turn it off for hours at a time. That's why you won't see truck drivers shutting their rigs off by the roadside or a truck stops, or just because they may be inside the truck and comfortable (not freezing to death). In places where is hot I imagine that truckers want to stay cool with the AC turned on, but I don't really know.
For extended below zero temps I used a car cover and if needed, a flameless, propane heater. No square tires and no ice on windows. When it's that cold there is no real comfortable solution besides a garage.
2012 Corolla parked on the front driveway, plugged to an electrical outlet for nearly 3 hours. It has been winterized (antifreeze to around -40 F., block heater, oil pan heater, and battery heater). Pressed the remote's start button for an 18-minute run just when the AC electrical timer outside turned the car heaters off.
Seventeen minutes later I went outside, put the key in the ignition switch to keep the motor running, unplugged the electrical cord, and got on the driver's seat. The heater had been set for maximum heat, and the blower to the maximum speed. The air blown was still below warm since the temperature gage was still pointing at C. The seats and everything in the car were still cold, but not as cold as being outside the car. I didn't dare turn the radio on because that would result on blown speakers.
Drove the car out of the driveway, and then to the nearest highway ramp less than 1/4 mile away. Accelerated carefully not to overwork the cold motor until reaching 55MPH. Meanwhile I can hear the "thump, thump, thump" noise the small flat spot on each tire develops when the car is parked overnight (more on that later). About ten miles later the heater is starting to blow warm air, the temperature gage's pointer has moved to the first mark up toward normal operating temperature. By then the tires are sounding a lot smoother, too.
About 18 miles of driving the gage is now pointing to normal operating temperature (two marks up from C), and the air is nice and hot. A couple of miles later I turn the radio on, but keep the volume low enough to avoid damaging the speakers. The tires are nice and quiet, plus smooth-riding.
-----------
When it gets perhaps around -25 and colder, the lowest portion of each tire in contact with the pavement ,or whatever the parking or driveway is made of, loses its round shape (becomes strait or flat). After driving for a few miles the flat spot becomes less noticeable (less noise), and gradually disappears.
A truck with a diesel motor takes a lot longer to provide warm air. In here we let our diesel motors idle for quite a lot longer than gasoline motors, although all motors have block heaters and the rest. And if on the road, away from an electrical outlet, we just let the vehicle idle. Otherwise one risks not being able to start the motor if left turned off for over an hour. If the temperature is colder, then we just don't turn it off for hours at a time. That's why you won't see truck drivers shutting their rigs off by the roadside or a truck stops, or just because they may be inside the truck and comfortable (not freezing to death). In places where is hot I imagine that truckers want to stay cool with the AC turned on, but I don't really know.
Out of curiosity do you have a way of knowing the coolant temperature in your car? I am willing to bet the water temperature that your block heater brings your car up to before engine start is much hotter than after 17 minutes of idling.
How many watts is it?
With it being that cold it could be a good idea to block off the grill. Unless it has those active shutters
2012 Corolla parked on the front driveway, plugged to an electrical outlet for nearly 3 hours. It has been winterized (antifreeze to around -40 F., block heater, oil pan heater, and battery heater). Pressed the remote's start button for an 18-minute run just when the AC electrical timer outside turned the car heaters off.
Seventeen minutes later I went outside, put the key in the ignition switch to keep the motor running, unplugged the electrical cord, and got on the driver's seat. The heater had been set for maximum heat, and the blower to the maximum speed. The air blown was still below warm since the temperature gage was still pointing at C. The seats and everything in the car were still cold, but not as cold as being outside the car. I didn't dare turn the radio on because that would result on blown speakers.
Drove the car out of the driveway, and then to the nearest highway ramp less than 1/4 mile away. Accelerated carefully not to overwork the cold motor until reaching 55MPH. Meanwhile I can hear the "thump, thump, thump" noise the small flat spot on each tire develops when the car is parked overnight (more on that later). About ten miles later the heater is starting to blow warm air, the temperature gage's pointer has moved to the first mark up toward normal operating temperature. By then the tires are sounding a lot smoother, too.
About 18 miles of driving the gage is now pointing to normal operating temperature (two marks up from C), and the air is nice and hot. A couple of miles later I turn the radio on, but keep the volume low enough to avoid damaging the speakers. The tires are nice and quiet, plus smooth-riding.
-----------
When it gets perhaps around -25 and colder, the lowest portion of each tire in contact with the pavement ,or whatever the parking or driveway is made of, loses its round shape (becomes strait or flat). After driving for a few miles the flat spot becomes less noticeable (less noise), and gradually disappears.
A truck with a diesel motor takes a lot longer to provide warm air. In here we let our diesel motors idle for quite a lot longer than gasoline motors, although all motors have block heaters and the rest. And if on the road, away from an electrical outlet, we just let the vehicle idle. Otherwise one risks not being able to start the motor if left turned off for over an hour. If the temperature is colder, then we just don't turn it off for hours at a time. That's why you won't see truck drivers shutting their rigs off by the roadside or a truck stops, or just because they may be inside the truck and comfortable (not freezing to death). In places where is hot I imagine that truckers want to stay cool with the AC turned on, but I don't really know.
OK, here goes. Flat spots on tires at way below zero temperatures? Oh yeah, that certainly does happen. Only way to get 'em round again is drive to get the tires warm.
Diesel idling to warm up? Unless either the driver or the engine's electronic management system elevates the idle, that is about the worst thing that a person can do to a diesel engine. Same with extended idling a diesel in bitterly cold weather. Unless the idle is elevated, the engine will cool sufficiently to wet stack. That's asking for big engine trouble. The ONLY exception in light duty truck diesels that I've personally seen to that rule is the 2005-2006 Jeep Liberty CRD's. The CRD engine was built with a "viscous heater." The viscous heater was a belt-driven pump that circulated extremely thick fluid. Pumping that fluid would heat the fluid, which was then run through a heat exchanger to transfer its heat to the engine coolant. This helped to heat or maintain heat in the diesel engine in two ways--the transferred heat from the viscous fluid pump process was one. The other was that the viscous pump put a significant load on the engine. The engine's electronic management system would increase fuel delivery to the engine to maintain idle speed with the viscous pump running, thus creating more heat. Either with the somewhat unconventional viscous heater or the more common elevated idle control on diesel engines, the purpose is the same--cause the engine to burn enough fuel to warm the engine up or keep it warm while idling. (By the way, the recommended elevated idle speed for Ford diesels that are extended idled in extremely cold temperatures is 1,200 RPM, nearly one-third of the way up of the engine's recommended total RPM range.)
In pre-2007 diesel engines, wet stacking was pretty easy to spot in bitterly cold weather. If the exhaust was whitish or blue smoke, it indicated a lot of partially burned fuel being exhausted, a prime indication that the engine was wet stacking. A 2007+ diesel that is wet-stacking can quickly plug the diesel particulate filter because all that soot and partially burned fuel is being trapped in it.
OK, here goes. Flat spots on tires at way below zero temperatures? Oh yeah, that certainly does happen. Only way to get 'em round again is drive to get the tires warm.
Diesel idling to warm up? Unless either the driver or the engine's electronic management system elevates the idle, that is about the worst thing that a person can do to a diesel engine. Same with extended idling a diesel in bitterly cold weather. Unless the idle is elevated, the engine will cool sufficiently to wet stack. That's asking for big engine trouble. The ONLY exception in light duty truck diesels that I've personally seen to that rule is the 2005-2006 Jeep Liberty CRD's. The CRD engine was built with a "viscous heater." The viscous heater was a belt-driven pump that circulated extremely thick fluid. Pumping that fluid would heat the fluid, which was then run through a heat exchanger to transfer its heat to the engine coolant. This helped to heat or maintain heat in the diesel engine in two ways--the transferred heat from the viscous fluid pump process was one. The other was that the viscous pump put a significant load on the engine. The engine's electronic management system would increase fuel delivery to the engine to maintain idle speed with the viscous pump running, thus creating more heat. Either with the somewhat unconventional viscous heater or the more common elevated idle control on diesel engines, the purpose is the same--cause the engine to burn enough fuel to warm the engine up or keep it warm while idling. (By the way, the recommended elevated idle speed for Ford diesels that are extended idled in extremely cold temperatures is 1,200 RPM, nearly one-third of the way up of the engine's recommended total RPM range.)
In pre-2007 diesel engines, wet stacking was pretty easy to spot in bitterly cold weather. If the exhaust was whitish or blue smoke, it indicated a lot of partially burned fuel being exhausted, a prime indication that the engine was wet stacking. A 2007+ diesel that is wet-stacking can quickly plug the diesel particulate filter because all that soot and partially burned fuel is being trapped in it.
Interesting...I just learned thanks!
This morning was 3F. I had the Frostheater 1000W running for 4 hours before I started. Car started like it was 80F outside. Coolant temperature gauge swung right to the middle. Scangauge showed 159F on the water temperature. I let it idle about 30 seconds and drove off with my heater blowing warm air.
The $0.60 of electricity the heater consumed is totally worth it
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