Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You apparently never were privileged to ride in a Cobra 427. There's nothing there but engine, transmission and wheels. It's as close to a pure drag car as you'll get. They were quick. But I think their list is off. There seems to be a major difference between their results and what we actually saw on the streets. My 68 Charger with the 440/430hp could take a GTX with the Hemi. I couldn't get near a buds Cobra. I also couldn't stay with a friends 67 Corvette with the 427 RAT. Depended on the day and how quick the driver was if the Cobra would win or the Vette would take the Cobra. A GTO was a nice car but they were never at the front of a race unless they were racing against moms stocker car.Same with most of the Road Runners. Too much car, not enough motor for the weight. I do like their comments about the 421 2+2 Pontiac. One of the guys had one in white. What a boat but his was a major road car. I've thought several times about trying to find one but I have too many now and no place to put one.
Another reason I do not like lists.. They are almost never right and open to interpretation....
When I lived in Denver there was a guy we called Mad Murray the Cobra Man.. He would restore and "build" Cobras... His own Cobra had a 427 side oiler with about 500 something HP.. Talk about a ride and a half.....
It's also subjective. There's straight line 0-60, 1/4 mile, & top speed fast and then there's track (with left & right turns) fast. Some of the fastest straight line cars of the 60s would easily be left behind by slower track cars of the same era. For me, I'd like to get an idea of which is the best all around sports car of the era? Fast in both the straight line and in the corners.
Isn't that 1964 Pontiac GTO the one that had a 421 instead of the 389 engine? Since Pontiac V8s were all medium blocks, it was possible to make that swap.
1964 Pontiac GTO the one that had a 421 instead of the 389 engine
The 389 as the only engine offered in the GTO in 64. You might be thinking of the bored out 389 to a 400 cu in engine offered in 1967. My mother drove a 66 Maroon GTO with the 389, 3 dueces and 3.90 gears. You didn't wanna play with her on the street or at the drags. The car was not stock. I was never a fan of the backward turning Pontiac engines.
Another car that should not be on that list is the 1966 Mustang. I own one, I can tell you all about it. Mine has the 289 HIPO with a 4 speed and 3.50 gears and is concourses. They say 0-60 in 5.3 seconds and that might be real close but the little engine that could is pretty much out of steam from 60 on. Yeah, it'll run well over a 100 if you have enough room and time to wait for it to get there. It won't stay with a big block even on a good day.
The 389 as the only engine offered in the GTO in 64. You might be thinking of the bored out 389 to a 400 cu in engine offered in 1967. My mother drove a 66 Maroon GTO with the 389, 3 dueces and 3.90 gears. You didn't wanna play with her on the street or at the drags. The car was not stock. I was never a fan of the backward turning Pontiac engines.
Another car that should not be on that list is the 1966 Mustang. I own one, I can tell you all about it. Mine has the 289 HIPO with a 4 speed and 3.50 gears and is concourses. They say 0-60 in 5.3 seconds and that might be real close but the little engine that could is pretty much out of steam from 60 on. Yeah, it'll run well over a 100 if you have enough room and time to wait for it to get there. It won't stay with a big block even on a good day.
Actually, I was thinking of a ringer that was supplied to Car and Driver. Pontiac did not tell them their 389 GTO was actually a 421.
Isn't that 1964 Pontiac GTO the one that had a 421 instead of the 389 engine? Since Pontiac V8s were all medium blocks, it was possible to make that swap.
I don't know if the GTO ever left the factory with a 421 but in the early 1960's there were NASCAR 421 Pontiacs on the track. I had a 1964 GTO that left the factory with a 389 but I built it up to 401 CU/IN and did a lot of other stuff. I wasn't into drag races so I left the factory 3.36 Posi rears in it. I had fairly tall rubber on it and in fourth gear at 7,000 RPMs you were really scooting.. In a 1/4 mile the cars setup for the quarter mile would get huge hole shots on me but at the end of the quarter I would catch and pass most of them.
The HEMI was king in the quarter on the street if it had a stick and a good driver but if it had the Torque Flite (?) they were gangbusters coming out of the hole but real dogs at the end. The 427 Vettes from 1963 to 1969 could whoop ass on the HEMI's and 440 Mopars UNLESS the independent rear ends blew. My 1968 Vette 435 (plus a bunch of goodies) with a 3.70 rear kept me broke replacing gears and bearings. Too much power for such a weak rear coming off the line. I found a set of 3.08 gears and as long as I came off the line and shifted fairly easy I never had any problems with the IR if I took the corners easy. All observations are my opinion based on my experiences. YMMD.
Actually, I was thinking of a ringer that was supplied to Car and Driver. Pontiac did not tell them their 389 GTO was actually a 421
Uh....no. C&D knew what they were getting. That was fairly common knowledge back then that C&D fudged the car. The Bobcat Package was a dealer made and installed package available from Ace Wilsons Royal Pontiac in Michigan. GM/Pontiac had nothing to do with it. Superior Pontiac here bought one of the packages that you installed on a 421 Super Duty. The build sheet for the car shown as "restored" has the engine as a 76W which is a 389 with 3 dueces and a 4 speed manual. The car obviously does not have the OEM engine. None of Pontiacs build sheets have a 421 installed in a GTO of the time period. The performance package was the brain child of Milt Schornack as I recall. He was THE Guru of Pontiac engines back then. Superior here ran a modded 400 auto behind their Bobcat package with 10" slicks. If I could find my pics I have one where it's pulling one front wheel coming out of the hole. For the A/A Superstock class, it always came down to Superiors GTO against O R Mitchells Dodge that started with a 413 with 2-4's and ended with a 426 in front of a 727b transmission. If you were near the track when they launched, the ground was shaking as well as you.
FWIW, you'll also see rarely a GTO marked as a Royal Bobcat. That was also a dealer play to make folks think the car was extra special. It was nothing more than chrome letters harpooned on the car. If you go back to GM policies, you'll find that the GTO was actually against GM policy as the car platform was not to get more than 330 cu in. When Wanger, Pontiacs public relations and advertising guru, put the 389 in it, apparently GM looked the other way. Had it failed, it would have been his job and career along with Lee, De Lorean, and others.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
