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My position is what is a mechanic that is doing a pre-purchase inspection (PPI) going to do above and beyond the eye/smell/test drive test that the buyer should be doing?
Take out the obvious things to look for (oil leaks, creaks, vibration, etc) what is a PPI going to discover to give buyer true piece of mind? That they need to change the air filter and oil? They'll basically say wear items are wearing and need to be replaced soon . I think I can check the door locks and wipers and lights myself.
I'll take the maintenance records and test drive as a better litmus test.
One inspection showed me rust on the underneath that I would not have seen, one warned we away due to
sludge build up somewhere.
I don't doubt that you could do without an inspection because of your auto mechanical knowledge.
But for me an inspection can detect many things.
This just isn't based in reality. Simply put, some people have an eye for auto mechanics, others don't. There are things in IT that I could probably teach you how to do in 15 minutes, and you still won't understand what you're looking at. It's the same way with your average Joe/Jane driver. It isn't the painfully obvious stuff that often determines if that used car is solid or a lemon, it's the hidden stuff that only those blessed with an attention to detail can really see.
You are going to compare IT work to checking a hose to see if it feels weak? To running a magnet over a body panel to see if it is too thick?
The percentage of IT people who do not do mechanical maintenance or basic inspections of cars is probably on par with the number of waitresses who also cannot/or do not. It is not because there is any special knowledge involved; it is more likely because they just ever took an interest or looked at a list like the one I posted and bothered to understand it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rugrats2001
You seriously believe in 15 minutes everyone can learn how to detect the health of an engine by smelling the exhaust? Sure, if you are only looking for an anti-freeze smell, but there are lots of more subtle problems possible.
What on my list cannot be learned in 15 minutes? If I gave you that list, and told you how to do those things, you don't think you could learn to do it in that time? I would think you'd have to take a blow to the head not to understand any of those items. As for the exhaust, there are only a few things detectable from a bad running engine:
Burning Antifreeze has a distinct smell.
Burning water produces a distinct white cloud.
Burning oil has a distinct blue cloud.
If during the course of testing you do not see any of the above, I think it can be assumed that the engine in not in a critical failure mode. Smooth running and a lack of noise will give you other hints. If you buy a car and there are emission problems then it is under warranty if the vehicle is under 8 years old and 80,000 miles.
Sure, there still may be emissions problems, but most of them are likely to be reported by the ODB system. And if you are still concerned and you live in a state where emissions are required testing, a quick trip over to any store that performs emissions tests (such as Wal-Mart or Precision Tune ) can scout a problem for the price of putting the sniffer up the pipe.
Last edited by blktoptrvl; 06-07-2017 at 10:09 AM..
Totally missing the point.
Even though some things can't be predicted there are a host of other things that an inspection can and does reveal.
Obviously you have to find out what you can and then take your chances with what you cannot predict.
I wouldn't let you. Did it once, and it was a bad experience.
If it costs me a sale, oh well. I'll just sit and wait until someone who knows what they are looking at takes a peek at the car and decides to buy it.
Just "taking a peek' at a car isn't going to show things that you need to put the car up on a lift in order to see.
I just put two new tires on my car yesterday, and an alignment and ended up also replacing the tie rod ends in front. That little detail wasn't mentioned when I went to the dealer I bought the car from on Saturday for an oil change (which I get for free from them because I purchased their "Platinum Card" when I bought the car). They mentioned tires and alignment, but nothing about the tie rods. Another reason why, when those 20 free changes are used up, I will be going elsewhere for service. Someplace where the people writing up the paperwork have hands just as dirty as the guys out in the shop, because they are working out in the shop.
I guarantee you the Yuppie Soccer Moms out there that buy new cars with an extended service contract probably have no idea what tie rods even are, or what they are used for. If they ever had to buy used, they'd be the ones ending up with the as-is lemon sales. A car may look pretty on the outside, but that doesn't mean there aren't internal issues.
I'm looking for a reliable 5 year old Toyota van at a fair price. Not trying to pay less for more, just want to pay fair price for something reliable (as Toyotas are supposed to be).
What is the best approach to buying an used car? I often read the advice to "take it to a mechanic for examination before buying"; but how is that done? Do sellers really allow me to take the vehicle away to a mechanic? Or does the seller accompany me to do that? That can take hours; will seller put up with that?
Then do to a Toyota dealer and purchased a certified used Toyota from them. Then you don't have to deal with a private owner. I would never purchase a car privately unless it was some vintage collectable. Whatever money you think you might be saving is going to be returned to you in the form of potential headaches, and the moment there is a problem with the car you won't know if you have been scammed or it was just a normal repair. But if you buy it certified used from a Toyota dealer you know that they have gone over the car because they do offer a warranty.
This is just for the safety check. I didn't quote the emissions test requirements:
Quote:
Seat Belts
Inspect for proper operation and anchorage.
Model years 1969 and newer - one seat belt is required for each seating position
Model years 1967 and 1968 - two front seat belts are required (driver position included), and one seat belt is required for each seating position elsewhere in the vehicle
Model years 1965 and 1966 - two front seat belts are required (driver position included)
Your vehicle's Air Bag Warning Lamp will be checked for proper operation. You will be informed if the vehicle's air bag warning lamp is on or is not working. This is an advisement only and not cause for rejection.
Brakes
At least one front wheel must be removed to inspect the brakes.
Brake pedal reserve - brake pedal must have 1/3 reserve
Brake pedal fade - brake must hold for one minute without fading
Power brake unit - check for proper operation
Brake master cylinder - check for leakage and proper fluid level
Disc brake pads - check condition
Drum brake linings - thickness of linings must be at least 1/16 inch on bonded linings or at least 1/32 inch over rivet head on riveted linings, with no loose or missing rivets or lining
Brake drums and/or rotors - check condition
Wheel cylinders and/or calipers - check for leakage
All brake lines and hoses - check for leaks, cracks, chafing, restrictions, and improper support
Parking brake - check for components and function
Brake equalization - test vehicle for a straight stop without significant wheel pull
Steering, Front End, Suspension, Chassis, Frame and Wheel Fasteners
Front end assembly - check condition
Steering wheel play - check for excessive freeplay
All steering linkages - check for tightness or binding, excessive wear and/or looseness in parts, including idler arm, center control arm, tie-rod ends, drag link ends, steering and pitman arms, gear box, cross shafts, bushings, wheel bearings, steering column or steering wheel shaft mounting
Power steering - check operation, condition of belt, and for leakage
Shock absorbers - check shock mountings and for broken or missing shock absorbers
Springs and torsion bars - check for sagging or broken springs, or a broken, disconnected, missing or bent torsion or stabilizer bar
Chassis/frame - check for breaks, cracks, or severe rust at the suspension attachment points
Wheel fasteners - check for missing or broken parts
Tires (Except spare)
Tread depth - must be at least 2/32 inch when measured in two adjacent major tread grooves showing the most wear
Tire condition - check for any fabric break or cut over the length or width of 1 inch, visible bumps, bulges or knots, and any restricted use designation on the tire
Tire pressure - You will be informed if the vehicle's tire pressure in not within the manufacturer's recommendation. This is an advisement only, and not cause for rejection.
Lights
All lighting must be of an approved type and inspected for operation, proper mounting, and broken or missing lenses. Side marker lamps, parking lamps, and additional flashing turning lamps mounted on the side of the vehicle are not inspected.
Headlamps (low and high beam)
Tail lamps
Stop lamps
Directional signals
Backup lights (1969 and newer)
License plate lights
Hazard warning/four-way flasher (1966 and newer)
Directional signal indicator
Windshield and Other Glass
All windows
Check for approved safety glass or rigid plastic and condition
No crack of 11 inches long or longer is allowed if any part of the crack is within the area cleared by the windshield wiper.
Windshield Wipers and Blades
(Not including rear window or headlamp wipers)
Wipers - check for presence and operation
Blades - check condition
Horn
Check mounting and operation
Mirrors
Check mirror locations for proper mounting, cracks, breaks, and/or discoloration.
Model year 1970 and newer - must have a left outside mirror and an inside mirror, or both left and right outside mirrors
Model year 1968 and newer - must have a left outside mirror
1967 and older - must have one mirror that is either an inside mirror or a left outside mirror
Note: Any vehicle that has a permanent obstruction of the view through the rear window (Example: a truck or van) must have both a left and a right outside mirror.
Fuel Leaks
Any fuel leak that causes dripping or pooling is not acceptable.
If I was going to buy used/private sale, I would be having all this checked out before handing over any money or signing any paperwork.
You are going to compare IT work to checking a hose to see if it feels weak? To running a magnet over a body panel to see if it is too thick?
The percentage of IT people who do not do mechanical maintenance or basic inspections of cars is probably on par with the number of waitresses who also cannot/or do not. It is not because there is any special knowledge involved; it is more likely because they just ever took an interest or looked at a list like the one I posted and bothered to understand it.
How do I know a hose feels weak? What does that mean?
If people have better peace of mind taking a potential purchased car to a pre-inspection, why fault them for that?
Why, just so you can find some more points to argue ?
You will never convince me not to get an inspection because I have been saved
by the pre-buying inspection more than once.
And more importantly, if I learned how and did the inspection myself I would mess up my manicure
Fair enough
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. I think I can check the door locks and wipers and lights myself.
