Buying a vehicle and not knowing what engine it has (2012, auto)

[seamusnh]

Years ago people seemed to know more about their cars and do more themselves. It seems there are two kinds of car owners: those that enjoy cars, know a lot about them, and do some of the work themselves; and those that treat their car as a appliance with no more care about the workings of the car than they have for their dishwasher or vacuum....

[IShootNikon]

That's what keeps dealer service and independent shops open.

[stan4]

Given the kinds of questions I get in my medical practice (and the hookie I've read on this forum), most people don't know much about the basics of their own bodies.

Not surprising they don't know the inner workings of other things.

The average person spends more time watching tv than driving. Can they explain how their tv works? Can most people give you the specs, OS, etc, re: their cell phone? A light bulb?

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall

I've been in involved in the Ecoboost online community from almost the beginning 7 years ago. There are no "massive", systemic issues with any of these motors. Known issues? Absolutely? Epic, common, failures? Nope. I do recall some issues with the Coyote 5.0 in high performance applications - apparently it doesn't take well to modding. Also, I wonder why Ford chose to equipped their flagship super car with an Ecoboost engine?

This thread, and others, show that you have a very old school mentality when it comes to cars. You don't like forced induction, EFI, or any technology that wasn't around 50 years ago. Time to get with the program. Small displacement, forced induction engines and EVs/Hybrids (I can't wait to here your opinions of those) are the future. Get over it.

LOL Say no more autotrend.

Unlike you my knowledge comes first hand... see unlike an Internet group of fan boys where nothing breaks I see the issues everyday... I'll bet you probably were in powerstroke forums getting massive butt hurt over the 6.4s needing complete engines due to fukishima melt downs where only a rod and wrist pin remained.
Nope they never break.

Here ya go 2.7 popped head gaskets



By the way then way the dyno data is obtained when running 93 octane this is where the 5.0 shines.
See when the ecotrurd came out in the 150 us diesel guys were bombarded with them like a plague because the car techs haven't had turbo expirience.

Have you ever used IDS and compared the deviation of the ignition and injection timing? When the customers complained and they did about fuel economy, timing was pulled. 17mpg and no no 4:11 rear end vehicles, no wonder their 4.6 had better fuel economy... go fill it with 93 fuel economy was where it was claimed in the commercial and was night and day.
How about the 1.6 coming out and having porous blocks
Warped heads
1.6 ecojunk fusion escape anything come in, in the middle of winter complain of no heat. Find the degas bottle bone dry...
How about the heavy carbon build up on valves and misfires that develop around 60-70k unless you run them like you stole them? Induction services in a SSM were being advised against as the carbon and heat were wiping turbos out and Ford wouldn't cover them as it isn't their proceedure or their tools or chemicals doing the job...
Blasphemy right? Compared to your "data" and "sources" sure is...

As to the 5.0 not handling mods... the early powdered metal rod 5.0s you'd be correct. Over the counter canned tunes you'd be correct. Custom written tunes no issue.
I know many boosted coyotes that run around with 600 700 rear wheel horsepower. They run at limerock and Lebanon Valley you might want to go there and tell those guys they're doing it wrong.... you may have it confused with the GT350R that can't be boosted or molded much due to the precise balance of the rotating assembly... it would scatter. That was straight from the engineers mouth when I questioned him at training why not boost this flat plane high revver...

Only legitimate issues that plagued the 5.0 were transmission shudders and hunting for gears which was corrected via PCM reprograms. And the one I saw with a manufacturing defect that went 32k before the thing puked oil and seized up tighter than a drum.

Why would ford throw the EB in the GT? THEY'VE INVESTED FAR TOO MUCH INTO THE PROGRAM that's why. Just like the dps6 they didn't want to give the axe when they should have... instead of taking what we see daily, and re-designing or revising, they change vendors. Just like they did on the 1.6 cylinder head. The cam cap bolts on an original 1.6 are far different from the ones in a replacement head. New vendor.

As for my mentality, theres a method to my madness...
I stick with what works...
What's proven
Hence why I buy pushrod Chevy V8s... and why I bought the duramax.
Duramax hasn't changed much. Many parts are interchangeable.
Ford not so much. Once they finally do figure the quirks out, they design another problem to replace that problem. Leaving the aftermarket to come up with the permanent fix...

But don't take my word for it. I only work on the things...
As for electric vehicles... nope. That's a whole nother farce in itself.

[victimofGM]

Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall

Where did I take issue with your assertion about reliability? Let me help: I didn't. You said the 5.0 has more low-end torque than the EB V6s. It doesn't. Empirical data proves it. 5 minutes behind the wheel verifies it.

Also - and you should know this - there are many, many more EB powered vehicles out there than there are Coyote 5.0s. Perhaps this may explain why you see more failures. Duh.

I've been in involved in the Ecoboost online community from almost the beginning 7 years ago. There are no "massive", systemic issues with any of these motors. Known issues? Absolutely? Epic, common, failures? Nope. I do recall some issues with the Coyote 5.0 in high performance applications - apparently it doesn't take well to modding. Also, I wonder why Ford chose to equipped their flagship super car with an Ecoboost engine?

This thread, and others, show that you have a very old school mentality when it comes to cars. You don't like forced induction, EFI, or any technology that wasn't around 50 years ago. Time to get with the program. Small displacement, forced induction engines and EVs/Hybrids (I can't wait to here your opinions of those) are the future. Get over it.

Perhaps they're talking about the more linear power delivery from a dead stop. I think such a power delivery would be more apparent with a power and torque curve graph comparison. There's a different feel in how the power comes on smoothly in a non-turbo vehicle. Today's turbos don't suffer the turbo lag and neck snapping response of old turbos of the 80s and 90s but they don't quite match the linear power delivery of some larger non-turbo engines.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by victimofGM

Perhaps they're talking about the more linear power delivery from a dead stop. I think such a power delivery would be more apparent with a power and torque curve graph comparison. There's a different feel in how the power comes on smoothly in a non-turbo vehicle. Today's turbos don't suffer the turbo lag and neck snapping response of old turbos of the 80s and 90s but they don't quite match the linear power delivery of some larger non-turbo engines.

That and as I said, compare the 5.0 to the EB on data logger. Both running 87 octane the 5.0 has more low end grunt than the EB because the EB is retarding timing.
You may not hear the knock/ping from predet but the knock sensors do and cuts back the timing. The number 1 complaint when they came out and everybody and their brother rushed to trade their 4.6 and 5.4 was the gas mileage.

Could spend an entire hour with IDS data logger monitoring pids data, return to the shop enter OBD mode data and look for misfire counts etc like you would for a runs rough/lacks power/poor fuel economy/no code/check engine light concern.
Then you compare the timing charts for an allowable 20% deviation...
Ignition, injection dwell, cam timing too.

Tell the guys I understand your 4.6 was getting 22 on the highway, and the commercials claim 25+ highway with the Ecoboost, but if you were to read the fine print, it's when on premium grade fuel. 91/93

Sure enough, high test corrected it.
Then it was "HOW COME THE SALESMAN DIDN'T TELL ME THIS! I WOULD HAVE BOUGHT THE V8!" Because the salesman is about as mechanically inclined as you are... they're only concerned about selling. They're about as clueless as the folks they sell to...

Some arent... I've met a few who pushed 2.5 4 pots and non EB 4 pots in fusions escapes etc they were the ones who'd walk in the shop to check on a used vehicle and see the hood up, or the subframe on the floor of an EB and shake their heads...
They were the smart ones. They didn't want to be hassled or accused of stiffing someone. And if they were really smart, they sent 6.4s that were traded in to auction...

[Douglas Dakota]

Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall

Just curious - why do you want a V8 when the number of cylinders is indicative of absolutely nothing in terms of performance? You're severely limiting your choices and are probably buying inferior cars. Limiting yourself to V8s only is almost as puzzling as folks who don't know what engine they have.

Well, I was exaggerating of course, I have been driving and owning I4 as well as I/V 6 when it made sense.

But when I have the choice (money), I would always choose a V8, just because I love the way they sound, look, handle, feel and because I have so many positive emotion and experiences connected to it. Just recently I have been driving an Audi S6 and it was in no way an inferior car

This might not be rational, but whenever I hear the sound of a V8 in a car or boat, my heart starts beating.

[Ziggy100]

Originally Posted by seamusnh

Years ago people seemed to know more about their cars and do more themselves. It seems there are two kinds of car owners: those that enjoy cars, know a lot about them, and do some of the work themselves; and those that treat their car as a appliance with no more care about the workings of the car than they have for their dishwasher or vacuum....

Modern cars need less maintence and are more reliable so people don't need to know exactly how they work as much as they used to.
The way I learned how cars worked, was it would break down and I'd quickly figure out what the thing that broke did and how hard it was to change out.

[Whyrallnamestaken]

Aren't there more 4 cylinder engines than any other engine?? I would expect you to know without popping the hood what size engine is in a particular car and would not have to ask the owner.

Nothing wrong with somebody not knowing every little thing about the vehicle they just bought. It's not that big a deal to them. I'm just amazed that it bothers you.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by Whyrallnamestaken

Aren't there more 4 cylinder engines than any other engine?? I would expect you to know without popping the hood what size engine is in a particular car and would not have to ask the owner.

Nothing wrong with somebody not knowing every little thing about the vehicle they just bought. It's not that big a deal to them. I'm just amazed that it bothers you.

Due to CAFE mandates yes, even 3 cylinders...