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I don't see a problem driving up there with my FWD Corolla. As I mentioned before, your driveway does not look difficult to climb, at least at the time you too the photo, as all one would have to do is to steer so that the tires are on the tracks shown in the photo.
Of course you dont. Noone else does until they're sliding backwards and/or rutting the thing up spinning. In dry summer. People are so full of dunning kruger it isnt funny.
Of course you dont. Noone else does until they're sliding backwards and/or rutting the thing up spinning. In dry summer. People are so full of dunning kruger it isnt funny.
Keep in mind that I live in the interior of Alaska where very steep driveways are quite normal in the outskirts of Fairbanks. Also, it gets quite cold up here, compared to Vermont. The photo shows a set of tracks on the dirt road, and the snow at the sides of the tracks is not high enough to make a difference in tire traction. It means that as long as the tires are on the existing tracks, it is not difficult to climb that hill, even with a modern FWD car that has the proper tires. Didn't you say that you don't even use winter tires on your AWD vehicle? I bet I can run donuts around you with my Corolla wearing a set of Blizzak on a frozen Lake Champlain. I never had any trouble driving a RWD Pinto station wagon when I lived in your neck of the woods, and it was long before AWD became so common, plus it used to snow real hard in those days (early '70s).
All wheel drive vehicles typically have three total differentials - one between the front wheels, one between the rear wheels, and one between the front and rear differentials. A differential allows for equal power to be delivered to all wheel, but if one wheel is slipping, the power going to the other wheels is limited by that slipping wheel, which is to say it can still be zero.
Many AWD vehicles have what's called a "limited slip differential" between front and rear, which sends unequal power to the wheel that has more grip if the speed difference is large. However, many front and rear wheel drive vehicles also have this, meaning they can still have as much traction as an AWD vehicle with a limited slip differential, just without as many choices in which wheels to get that traction from. It's also possible to shift power around by the computer intelligently using brakes on the wheel that's slipping, so the others can spin.
4WD can variously refer to a lot of things but commonly it means a locked ratio either between front and back or to all of the wheels, where all wheels spin at the same speed. This is really bad for on road use because it will wear your tires out and cause poor traction whenever you're going anywhere but in a straight line. It's unmatched for getting unstuck though. Some newer 4WD vehicles use different systems than this and more resemble AWD, and probably shouldn't be called 4WD.
I've seen some older Subarus get stuck with one front and one rear wheel spinning.
Honda's system, which I'm most familiar with, only engages power to the rear wheels when front slip is detected. This helps fuel economy and still provides all of the benefits of AWD, though you'll hear the front wheels slip for a second before the rear engages.
AWD and 4WD systems all hurt fuel economy to some degree, but it varies based on how they work.
AWD and 4WD systems are all heavier and have more wear parts than 2WD vehicles.
I personally drive a 2WD car in the mountains of Vermont and have never had an issue.[/quote
That is one of the better AWD/4WD descriptions I have read, except for the "locked ratio"; I'm not sure what the "ratio" is. 4WD commonly refers to a fixed transfer case; it is either in two wheel drive, or the transfer case has the driveshafts locked together for 4WD. There is usually a two speed capability in the transfer case, as well. "Low Range" can be selected by the driver if desired, but only in 4WD. Yes, I know, some drivers like to use Low Range in 2WD, but damage to the axle shafts (breakage) or drive shafts (twisting/breakage) can occur due to the high torque applied.
I do know of (and have owned) some vehicles that have an AWD/4WD transfer case. Specifically, Dodge trucks and Jeep Libertys. The transfer case is in AWD mode all the time, but can be locked into high or low range 4WD when desired. Most AWD vehicles (AMC Eagle, BMW X-drive, Subaru, etc.) do not have this capability.
As previously asked, why do you think you really NEED an AWD or 4WD vehicle? I have four 4WD capable vehicles (two ATVs, a Jeep Wrangler, and a Dodge 2500 truck). My daily driver is a Chrysler PT Cruiser. I seldom use, and rarely need, 4WD. In fact, last winter I plowed snow with one of the ATVs and discovered it was not in 4WD! It did have chains on the rear wheels, though.
I am constantly amused by the successful marketing efforts by vehicle manufacturers touting their AWD/FWD expensive vehicles. I had been driving 2 wheel drives (exclusively rear wheel drive) for nearly 20 years before I bought my first 4 wheel drive. Few people had them back then. Now, nearly everybody has one.
"Locked ratio" means that with a true 4wheel drive it splits the power 50/50, versus say the STis symetrical awd that can ssend 50/50, 60/40, 80/20, 0/100, 100/0 power splits as well as to one side of the car or opposite wheels.
Actually the word '4WD' is misleading...in '4x4 trucks and suvs', its only 1 wheel per axle that is powered, when you engage the 4wd, all you are doing is turning on ONE drive wheel on the other axle, so its actually 2WD technically, but its common sense why they call it '4wd'.
Tractors and some trucks are the exception though, that do have power to all 4 wheels.
Wrong. Except on 4wds with open diffs and torsen diffs without lockers. Contrary to popular belief; an open diff still drives both wheels until there is slippage. Generally some 4wds don't have a front locker or limited slip unless it's a helical, as those can go open. Some have front/rear lockers. So regardless of front and rear diffs, 4wds power all four wheels, wether continuously or not
Snow, ice, rough terrain..............regular 4wd is best because there is no delay if already engaged.
AWD is as-needed (not full time) according to input from sensors.
Many, many awd systems are full time. Every single Subaru system is full time, Acuras SHAWD is full time, Teslas are full time, BMWs X-Drive is full time, Mercedes is full time, Trailblazer SS and probably Escalade is full time. Some of Audis are full time.
Keep in mind that I live in the interior of Alaska where very steep driveways are quite normal in the outskirts of Fairbanks. Also, it gets quite cold up here, compared to Vermont. The photo shows a set of tracks on the dirt road, and the snow at the sides of the tracks is not high enough to make a difference in tire traction. It means that as long as the tires are on the existing tracks, it is not difficult to climb that hill, even with a modern FWD car that has the proper tires. Didn't you say that you don't even use winter tires on your AWD vehicle? I bet I can run donuts around you with my Corolla wearing a set of Blizzak on a frozen Lake Champlain. I never had any trouble driving a RWD Pinto station wagon when I lived in your neck of the woods, and it was long before AWD became so common, plus it used to snow real hard in those days (early '70s).
The road is loose gravel. The snow isnt the main factor. You are over estimating your Corolla.
Keep in mind that I live in the interior of Alaska where very steep driveways are quite normal in the outskirts of Fairbanks. Also, it gets quite cold up here, compared to Vermont. The photo shows a set of tracks on the dirt road, and the snow at the sides of the tracks is not high enough to make a difference in tire traction. It means that as long as the tires are on the existing tracks, it is not difficult to climb that hill, even with a modern FWD car that has the proper tires. Didn't you say that you don't even use winter tires on your AWD vehicle? I bet I can run donuts around you with my Corolla wearing a set of Blizzak on a frozen Lake Champlain. I never had any trouble driving a RWD Pinto station wagon when I lived in your neck of the woods, and it was long before AWD became so common, plus it used to snow real hard in those days (early '70s).
How do you get down a long, steep driveway in the winter when it’s iced over and turns into a luge run? Chains? It’s not like you can wave a magic wand and have the truck with the spreader show up and sand your driveway. This guy says he has a 27 percent grade driveway. Studded snow tires likely would break loose. I had studded snows on my body on frame SUVs. There are still traction limits. Uphill isn’t usually the problem. In Vermont, you couldn’t get a building permit for the lot.
How do you get down a long, steep driveway in the winter when it’s iced over and turns into a luge run? Chains? It’s not like you can wave a magic wand and have the truck with the spreader show up and sand your driveway. This guy says he has a 27 percent grade driveway. Studded snow tires likely would break loose. I had studded snows on my body on frame SUVs. There are still traction limits. Uphill isn’t usually the problem. In Vermont, you couldn’t get a building permit for the lot.
Snow isn't really the issue, it's the several inches of loose gravel...you could park mid-way up my driveway, throw on the brakes, and I could push you back down it, by hand, all 4 tires sliding if I wanted to. Unless you're using tires with 3" spikes, that's just how it will go. FWD has no hope of getting up without slipping and running it up.
How do you get down a long, steep driveway in the winter when it’s iced over and turns into a luge run? Chains? It’s not like you can wave a magic wand and have the truck with the spreader show up and sand your driveway. This guy says he has a 27 percent grade driveway. Studded snow tires likely would break loose. I had studded snows on my body on frame SUVs. There are still traction limits. Uphill isn’t usually the problem. In Vermont, you couldn’t get a building permit for the lot.
Down a steep and slippery grade, being driveway or road, either dirt or paved: assuming that your car has the proper tires for road conditions, long ago before there was such a thing as computer-assisted transmissions, I would down-shift to a low gear that would allow me to coast/drive the car slow enough while avoiding using the brake pedal. Or with an automatic transmission, I would shift to a low gear that would allow me to drive the car as slowly as one with a manual transmission. A tractor/trailer: I would slow down long before the down-grade, and shift the transmission to a low gear (same as above). The guy already said that he does not even use winter tires, studded/chained or not. So if he can do it with all season tires on his SUV, I can do the same with the proper set of winter tires with one of my FWD vehicles. Nowadays a lot of automobiles have a push-button to coast at slow speed down a hill.
If you cannot accomplish that, park the automobile on the top, and walk down. How do you thing some of us old drivers drove RWD vehicles in the 70's? Also, if you drive to Alaska you will notice the great number of gravel roads. Then when you arrive to the outskirts of Fairbanks, you will be driving on gravel roads. We have a few unpaved "highways," and cracked windshields are not illegal in Alaska for good reasons.
Last edited by RayinAK; 05-26-2019 at 10:46 PM..
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