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Old 02-24-2021, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,302 posts, read 37,246,902 times
Reputation: 16404

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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
The rest of the world looks at the USA being confused at why they drive around in a construction vehicle (pickup). These vehicles can easily be EV. The auto giants will make what sells at any one time. It is as simple as that. In 14 years time they will be selling only EVs in at least three US states but more like most of them by then, and 5 years before that in countless countries.

Look at what is available, what it about to come, the legislation phasing out ICE vehicles and then the trend lines.
It is very normal for anybody not living in the USA to see our nation as being confused. It is also very normal for people not living in the UK to perceive you (the UK) as being confused. See...you are assuming that all peoples around the world have the same standard of living as you in the UK, and that all peoples think the way you do. You haven't realized that even in the UK there are people who don't agree with your views.

You aren't considering a myriad of factors that prevent others from not agreeing with your ideas. The US is 40 times larger than the UK. You haven't even considered that most people around the world live within their means in the most economical form possible. Most people aren't rich, and at the moment ICE is more economical than EV.

Last edited by RayinAK; 02-24-2021 at 12:40 PM..
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Old 02-24-2021, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,302 posts, read 37,246,902 times
Reputation: 16404
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
Where battery powered EVs work well is where the daily trip is either short, or consistent, and there's a reliable source of charging and a reliable period of downtime.

Commuter cars, buses, in-city delivery trucks.

Where they're not going to work well is where continuous operation without charging time is needed (over the road trucks, cargo ships), extreme loads (earth moving equipment), or maximum power density to minimize vehicle weight (airplanes).

As I've said before, one likely change is moving cross country transportation (I'm talking about countries like US, Canada, Russia, Argentina, Brazil - not miniature countries like UK) to rail - either the already very efficient diesel-electric, or electrified railways - and then to depots, with EV in-city trucks distributing goods from depots. This is essentially the transportation system of the US in 1880 except for using motorized in-city distribution rather than horse and mule wagons.

Medium term there are very many 2 car families who could use an EV for commuting and in-city trips and an ICE car for longer or unpredictable travel. Long term, the cost of EV and EV infrastructure will drive more and more people to public transit. Of COURSE in rural and semi-rural areas there won't be public transport.
Outstanding response!
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Old 02-24-2021, 12:47 PM
 
Location: London
4,709 posts, read 5,076,566 times
Reputation: 2154
The rest of the world does not buy a new construction vehicle as a family car. Now that is odd.


I do not assume that all peoples around the world have the same standard of living as the UK, having been around a lot of the world. I clearly know most do not think like me as well. I know many people that do not agree with me.

The point is that EVs will be the norm and quite quickly.
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Old 02-24-2021, 12:56 PM
 
2,781 posts, read 5,177,415 times
Reputation: 3688
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
The rest of the world does not buy a new construction vehicle as a family car. Now that is odd.


I do not assume that all peoples around the world have the same standard of living as the UK, having been around a lot of the world. I clearly know most do not think like me as well. I know many people that do not agree with me.

The point is that EVs will be the norm and quite quickly.

Only in urban centers maybe in next 50 years.


A lot will need to change before that, and there is a much bigger chance the ICE running more efficient and clean will actually be in the new future.
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Old 02-24-2021, 01:04 PM
 
Location: London
4,709 posts, read 5,076,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
As I've said before, one likely change is moving cross country transportation (I'm talking about countries like US, Canada, Russia, Argentina, Brazil - not miniature countries like UK) to rail - either the already very efficient diesel-electric, or electrified railways - and then to depots
A recent report sponsored by the US Energy Department and Federal Rail Administration notes that while powering freight trains with hydrogen is more technically challenging, it would ultimately have “the highest societal valueâ€.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...climate-change

Diesel-electric is not efficient.
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Old 02-24-2021, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,302 posts, read 37,246,902 times
Reputation: 16404
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
The rest of the world does not buy a new construction vehicle as a family car. Now that is odd.


I do not assume that all peoples around the world have the same standard of living as the UK, having been around a lot of the world. I clearly know most do not think like me as well. I know many people that do not agree with me.

The point is that EVs will be the norm and quite quickly.
People all over the wold don't buy construction equipment as family cars, unless family members participate in construction. I am certain that you are referring to pickup trucks as "construction equipment." But a pickup truck can also be a family car to a person who is in the business of construction.

I have a pickup truck that I use to transport home-construction materials to my home, and to haul a trailer loaded with a UTV and meat trailer (or a boat) during the moose season. I also enjoy wildlife photography, and during the summer I sleep in a small camper (truck bed topper) on the bed of the truck three or four hundred miles away from my house. Sometimes I take my wife and our dog with me, so you can consider this pickup truck as being a family vehicle. The rest of the time I drive a 2012 Toyota Corolla.

Now, a family were one or two members work in construction and need a pickup truck, but can't afford more vehicles could very well use the pickup truck as a construction and family vehicle. A pickup truck is a multi-use utility vehicle, not just construction. It is not a grader, nor a bulldozer, nor a dump truck, nor a backhoe, not a construction crane. And yes, I understand that a rich person can buy a very expensive pickup truck for transportation, or maybe to "showoff" around the neighborhood. On the same token, the same person can also buy a very expensive EV, for the same reasons.

You said that you have traveled around the world. If that's the case, haven't you noticed that pickup trucks are found all over the world? Some of these trucks are used as "war" trucks, some other for transportation of goods and people, as family automobiles, and so on.

Last edited by RayinAK; 02-24-2021 at 01:20 PM..
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Old 02-24-2021, 02:57 PM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,365,982 times
Reputation: 32276
No, I don't find it odd.

Here in the US people who own houses often work on them. The best vehicle for carrying things like 4 x 8 sheets of plywood, concrete blocks, yards of mulch, 10 foot 2 x 4 studs, etc., to the house, and also for carrying things like broken up drywall and brush to the dump, is a pickup truck. It's also the case that many people own country property. It's very helpful to have a vehicle with high ground clearance if you're going to be driving down a gravel road that may or may not have soft muddy places. Fence posts and rolls of barbwire don't coexist peacefully with the interior of a small sedan. Many people often have long commutes in bad conditions with idiots sharing the road with them as well as 18 wheelers traveling 80 mph in the next lane; a large tall vehicle improves visibility both of the other vehicles as well as your own. If you want to tow an RV you need a heavy powerful vehicle as well.

Now it's true there are workarounds for the hauling issues - you can rent trucks, you can own a trailer, etc; but if a pickup truck can combine multiple functions in one vehicle, it makes a reasonable choice for a very large number of people.

I'm an ordinary middle aged American who owns a house in the city and one in the country with some land around it, and I'm also planning to buy an RV. I also like antique furniture and often buy pieces. In addition as a musician I routinely haul big instruments and equipment. I'm in the market for a 1/2 ton pickup with extended cab, topper, and four wheel drive. In one vehicle I will be able to combine the functions of a commuting/errand city vehicle, hauler for rough stuff (bricks, mulch, lawnmowers, tiller, the sheet metal for the new barn roof), not-so-rough stuff (musical instruments, furniture), vehicle for access to my country house over its 3/4 mile long gravel road that is rarely regraded and has a low place that gets swampy - as well as over the fields around it - and tow vehicle.

That's why I'm going to buy one.

If I lived in a third floor flat in a crowded European city and paid someone else to do all repairs, then I'd want a small car. I live in a comfortable American city where most people live in single family houses with two car garages and ample parking, and shop at stores with ample parking as well; and I have a toolbox and I know how to use it. Not ready to give up my independence to the extent of having to pay other people to do everything for me, not yet.
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Old 02-24-2021, 03:59 PM
 
603 posts, read 575,354 times
Reputation: 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by christsob View Post
Do you think combustion engines have a future?
I am currently studying automotive engineering and we are learning interesting stuff about combustion engines. Some of the things that caught my attention is the skyactive tech that Mazda introduced that shows promising news that combustions engines have more to deliver and a lot can be done to increase the efficiency. However that is being toned down by all the press from the authorities and society to rush the change to electric cars. What do you guys think about that?
If you owned a Tesla in Texas a week ago, it would have cost you $900 to "fill the tank". We're decades away from having the necessary infrastructure to properly power electric cars, and a vast increase in the number of nuclear power plants will be required to get there.
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Old 02-24-2021, 04:01 PM
 
Location: London
4,709 posts, read 5,076,566 times
Reputation: 2154
What you say does not tally. The average American does not do DIY every weekend needed a construction vehicle.
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Old 02-24-2021, 05:12 PM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,365,982 times
Reputation: 32276
I'm so glad you know my needs better than I do. I will do whatever you say I should as your Britishness clearly gives you superior insight into my life and that of my neighbors, about a quarter of whom own pickup trucks.
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