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I remember when China started ramping up production of electric-assist bicycles and electric powered mopeds well over a decade ago when they were fairly rare in Europe or North America. In the last 3-4 years, Europe & N. America have grown in their production and sales of electric powered or assist 2-wheelers, but it remains a fraction of the number built in China. I think that the experience in building tens of millions of 2-wheel EVs has given China a big foundation for building electric powered cars.
The Chinese auto manufacturers have not proven that they can compete with other car manufacturers when it comes to innovation, quality, branding, reliability, safety, etc. They may do it one day, but that day hasn't yet come.
Tesla is still the bid dog in the EV world, and I don't see anyone overtaking them in the foreseeable future.
The Chinese auto manufacturers have not proven that they can compete with other car manufacturers when it comes to innovation, quality, branding, reliability, safety, etc. They may do it one day, but that day hasn't yet come.
Tesla is still the bid dog in the EV world, and I don't see anyone overtaking them in the foreseeable future.
I'd agree that Tesla is still the class of the EV business when it comes to technology. But I am less confident than you when it comes to the foreseeable future. Other familiar brands may come to challenge Tesla more successfully over the next 5 years. Moreover, Chinese EV brands like BYD, NIO, Voyah and Xpeng are now beginning to expand into Western Europe where they will need to meet stout safety regulations and compete with top global brands from around the world.
We'll see how that goes - I'd expect there will be challenges and growing pains, like for any company entering a foreign market on another continent - but I don't count them out. Several Chinese brands have achieved 5-star safety ratings for vehicles in the tough European NCAP safety testing in just the past year, and mind you, the BMW i4 got 4-stars from this testing last year! https://www.autoevolution.com/news/h...ls-203989.html
I don't know why are you so confident that Tesla can't be surpassed? They are doing good things, I'll be the first to admit, but I don't see them as having a monopoly on good ideas.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 02-25-2023 at 01:07 AM..
I'd agree that Tesla is still the class of the EV business when it comes to technology. But I am less confident than you when it comes to the foreseeable future. Other familiar brands may come to challenge Tesla more successfully over the next 5 years. Moreover, Chinese EV brands like BYD, NIO, Voyah and Xpeng are now beginning to expand into Western Europe where they will need to meet stout safety regulations and compete with top global brands from around the world.
We'll see how that goes - I'd expect there will be challenges and growing pains, like for any company entering a foreign market on another continent - but I don't count them out. Several Chinese brands have achieved 5-star safety ratings for vehicles in the tough European NCAP safety testing in just the past year, and mind you, the BMW i4 got 4-stars from this testing last year! https://www.autoevolution.com/news/h...ls-203989.html
I don't know why are you so confident that Tesla can't be surpassed? They are doing good things, I'll be the first to admit, but I don't see them as having a monopoly on good ideas.
Tesla has the best technology, charging network, the largest market value, the best ideas IMO, the best product line coming (Cybertruck, Seimi Truck, cheaper Model, etc.
The Chinese have cracked the low-cost low profit markets that they play in but haven't proven they can beat the US, Germans, S Koreans, Japanese at high cost and value products. I worked for many years in Asia at an engineering company in both China and S. Korea and I have some doubts the Chinese have everything they need to compete at that level, not saying they won't but they haven't proved it yet.
PS: As a promoter of EV vehicles, I'm glad the Chinese are offering lower cost options and I'm far from being anti-China.
Tesla has the best technology, charging network, the largest market value, the best ideas IMO, the best product line coming (Cybertruck, Seimi Truck, cheaper Model, etc.
The Chinese have cracked the low-cost low profit markets that they play in but haven't proven they can beat the US, Germans, S Koreans, Japanese at high cost and value products. I worked for many years in Asia at an engineering company in both China and S. Korea and I have some doubts the Chinese have everything they need to compete at that level, not saying they won't but they haven't proved it yet.
PS: As a promoter of EV vehicles, I'm glad the Chinese are offering lower cost options and I'm far from being anti-China.
I am neither pro nor anti-China. I am definitely pro US consumer, since I am one myself :-). We've got enough Chinese scientists and engineers in pharma/biotech here in the USA that I have learned to respect what these immigrants can do. In China, they may have begun with a big deficit in advanced technologies and manufacturing decades ago, but with so many western partners having built joint ventures there, they have learned a lot from working in and with these companies. In my own (well-funded pharma startup) company, they try to keep the staff lean, and we use a lot of services from Chinese contract research organizations. Over the years, they just keep building the sophistication of these operations, and while you don't have Chinese companies yet like Moderna or Vertex, I think in another decade or two, they will. They're not dumb, and they are working on these projects with so many US pharma/biotechs, plus some of the people who work in leadership positions right in our companies here go back to China. It's just a matter of time, and I think pharma/biotech is a more difficult area than automotive.
Tesla is still the bid dog in the EV world, and I don't see anyone overtaking them in the foreseeable future.
Tesla doesn't make a vehicle I'd want to buy. The 3, E, X, Y are all jelly bean shaped sedans or sedan/hatchbacks.
The Semi, if it ever ships, is a dumb idea.
The CyberTruck, if it ever ships, is silly.
Last edited by moguldreamer; 02-25-2023 at 09:17 AM..
The Chinese have cracked the low-cost low profit markets that they play in but haven't proven they can beat the US, Germans, S Koreans, Japanese at high cost and value products.
Pick up a copy of professor Clayton Christensen's seminal book, "The Innovator's Dilemma." Or check it out from the library, or listen to an audio book version of it. https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Di...780/ref=sr_1_1
The gist: across industries and over the past 100+ years, companies that focus on high-cost & value products have are toppled by companies that enter in the low-cost, low-profit markets, become competent, and work their way up the value chain ultimately killing the high value add companies.
"The i4 can more or less match an M3 in our regular acceleration and braking metrics, but a lap of VIR taxes the entire vehicle for three minutes, and the i4 showed signs of wilting. First, it won't make full power for a whole lap. An extremely cool out-lap helps, but while the i4 easily hummed along at its low, 128-mph top speed to start, at the finish line it only reached 116 mph, barely faster than the Carnival minivan. Furthermore, it restricted power until the steering wheel was pointed sufficiently straight, even with the stability control in its most lenient mode, hampering the car's ability to accelerate out of corners and then punching us back in the seat as we unwound the wheel. Each 4.1-mile hot lap consumed about 20 percent of the i4's state of charge and, as is typical for EVs, power drops off as the battery depletes, so it wasn't productive to do more than one fast lap before hooking it up for a couple-hour recharge."
"The i4 can more or less match an M3 in our regular acceleration and braking metrics, but a lap of VIR taxes the entire vehicle for three minutes, and the i4 showed signs of wilting. First, it won't make full power for a whole lap. An extremely cool out-lap helps, but while the i4 easily hummed along at its low, 128-mph top speed to start, at the finish line it only reached 116 mph, barely faster than the Carnival minivan. Furthermore, it restricted power until the steering wheel was pointed sufficiently straight, even with the stability control in its most lenient mode, hampering the car's ability to accelerate out of corners and then punching us back in the seat as we unwound the wheel. Each 4.1-mile hot lap consumed about 20 percent of the i4's state of charge and, as is typical for EVs, power drops off as the battery depletes, so it wasn't productive to do more than one fast lap before hooking it up for a couple-hour recharge."
Part of the problem is the tires. One of the reasons the 240i trounces it even on the single lap is it's on PS4s like most of the cars if not Cup2s like the CTR and Corolla. I mean, it's still going to get crippled by heat if you're doing a normal 20 minute tracking session, not to mention the battery will be just about completely depleted, but a part of the problem is the EV tires as well. Bimmer did a lot better job with the i4 than say Ford on the MachE in that respect. The Mach E GT Performance is even slower than an F-150 for a single lap. The i4 was still much quicker than a minivan thanks to its ability to carry speed, not something that can be said for the Mach E.
Tesla doesn't make a vehicle I'd want to buy. The 3, E, X, Y are all jelly bean shaped sedans or sedan/hatchbacks.
The Semi, if it ever ships, is a dumb idea.
The CyberTruck, if it ever ships, is silly.
Both the Semi and Cybertruck are beyond brilliant designs that will wipe out their competition, there's a reason Tesla has become the highest market value company in the world in just a very short period of time.
PS I've ordered 2 Cybertrucks.
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