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I witnessed a situation with a fortunate outcome where an elderly person driving a Camry swerved to avoid hitting a deer and ended up on the side of the road. The road had very little room before a deep ravine at about 45 degree angle started. The car was positioned exactly at that angle and she struggled getting out of the car because of the weight of the door. Luckily she was unharmed and when viewed from front the car, the steepness of the terrain looked like a textbook example, too perfect. My first thought was that the outcome would have been different, potentially dangerous, had that not been a sedan.
The other situation I heard of was a friend who rolled over her Subaru forester, just because the front pass. tire blew out. Later she bought an Impreza and wouldn't even sit in a high COG vehicle.
I have seen various aggregated data where 'safety' is discussed and compared, but I am interested in the rollover risk and weight influence in safety. The sweet spot is around 3000 lbs or so and the law of diminishing returns kicks in after that. I know that the vehicles have come a long way, but I know that Physics is Physics too.
Are there any good (granular) resources on this topic anybody is aware of? Science and possibly model-specific, not generic info. I have seen many IIHS and NHTSA videos/reports, but I am looking for more info. A lot of those are aggregates only, and really not relevant in the real world.
Thanks
What is your question? If you've reviewed the NHTSA and IIHS tests, you know that NHTSA evaluates susceptibility to rollover during a dynamic maneuver - a sudden swerve at speed, and the IIHS tests the roof strength, i.e. how likely are you to survive if it does roll over. These are done via experiments on individual cars. IIHS and NHTSA testing is expensive, and I highly doubt there is anything "better" out there that is anywhere near so comprehensive in models evaluated.
What is your question? If you've reviewed the NHTSA and IIHS tests, you know that NHTSA evaluates susceptibility to rollover during a dynamic maneuver - a sudden swerve at speed, and the IIHS tests the roof strength, i.e. how likely are you to survive if it does roll over. These are done via experiments on individual cars. IIHS and NHTSA testing is expensive, and I highly doubt there is anything "better" out there that is anywhere near so comprehensive in models evaluated.
My question is about model-specific data for a given year. I have seen all sorts of generic and aggregate data from IIHS and NHTSA, but not if I want to compare, say a 2014 CRV to 2022 RAV4 in any respects where safety matters. I assume manufacturers would have some specs as to the strength of the steel and components used, center of gravity, etc. and various risks could be extrapolated indirectly, even without a crash test. There are data for classes of vehicles, but I was thinking something more granular. I figured some car experts would know good online sources, that's all.
More generally, my thread title is asking for opinions/experiences on rollover risk and overall safety of (relatively) modern sedans vs. CUVs/SUVs, possibly with some data.
My question is about model-specific data for a given year. I have seen all sorts of generic and aggregate data from IIHS and NHTSA, but not if I want to compare, say a 2014 CRV to 2022 RAV4 in any respects where safety matters. I assume manufacturers would have some specs as to the strength of the steel and components used, center of gravity, etc. and various risks could be extrapolated indirectly, even without a crash test. There are data for classes of vehicles, but I was thinking something more granular. I figured some car experts would know good online sources, that's all.
More generally, my thread title is asking for opinions/experiences on rollover risk and overall safety of (relatively) modern sedans vs. CUVs/SUVs, possibly with some data.
For some tests, you can see the individual data. For example, the IIHS roof crush test shows a rating of Good for a 2022 Toyota RAV4 - that's the most important piece of data, to be honest - is their interpretation of the experiment. But they further explain that they do this test with a hydraulic ram pushing down on the roof and they measure the peak force required while crushing the roof by 5-inches, and for the 2022 RAV4, they list that peak force for the reader as 21,009 lbs. They also explain that this result applies to the 2019-2023 RAV4 - because the roof structure is the same across these years.
In some cases, you can find manufacturer's diagrams that show the vehicle's body structure and color-coded by steel strength - but you can't from that reliably determine the strength of the roof - there are numerous other important variables than the grade of steel used in a particular member affecting roof strength - that's exactly why the IIHS experimentally crushes the roof to observe it's strength.
I am getting a feeling that you don't like the "G" rating because you don't feel it's scientific, but I think you are outsmarting yourself.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 04-03-2023 at 12:47 AM..
I was addicted to watching idiot drivers on Youtube for a while. One of the things I noticed was that any car can roll over, even in accidents that seem minor.
There's a reason the SUVs and trucks are barred from many HPDE events. They handle poorly under stressing conditions. That being said, my experience is that many CUVs handle nearly as well as many sedans. For example, my SUV-based Honda Ridgeline handles far, far better than any of my previously owned body-on-frame trucks (including my 2000 SVT Lightning). While the Ridgeline still falls short of my BMW M550i and Taurus SHO, it is completely acceptable. In my opinion, most modern medium/small CUVs offer acceptable (from a safety standpoint) handling/chassis dynamics. Most body-on-frame trucks and SUVs have unacceptably poor handling. In fairness, I prioritize active safety (accident avoidance) over passive safety (accident protection). Folks who simply want to sit back and disengage themselves from driving seem to prioritize passive safety, even it puts other people in danger. For example, a huge pickup will come out ahead in a collision against a smaller car because the pickup driver has decided his/her well being is more important than anyone else and is unwilling to engage in behavior that reduces the possibility of avoiding the collision in the first place.
I never realized how many were concerned with safety. I just hop in a car and enjoy my drive. Though I am specific with what vehicle I drive, the safety aspect has never been a concern.
I never realized how many were concerned with safety. I just hop in a car and enjoy my drive. Though I am specific with what vehicle I drive, the safety aspect has never been a concern.
Same here. I have never once - over the course of 40 years and 45+ new car purchases - looked at a vehicle's safety ratings or safety features prior to making a purchase decision. It's just not important. The best way to avoid being injured in an automobile accident is to not get into an accident in the first place. Of course, this involves actually taking driving seriously and paying attention, which doesn't seem to be very popular these days.
I never realized how many were concerned with safety. I just hop in a car and enjoy my drive. Though I am specific with what vehicle I drive, the safety aspect has never been a concern.
I agree. Among my relatives and friends, there is probably a millenium or more of driving experience. I know of none who experienced a rollover in any vehicle.
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