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This thread has been more about aggression, whether it be the tail-gaters or the response to the tail-gaters.
Slightly different - out here in San Diego the cycles on the surface road traffic lights are oftentimes around two minutes and the surface roads tend to be quite wide- say 4 lanes.
So I see this behavior - I can't make sense of it, wondering if you folks have seen it too? I'm stopped at a light, we've got 90s or 2m to go, and various cars around me, about every 20s or so, they let off the brake, roll forward, then step on the brake. I routinely see cars do this 5 or more times while waiting for a light.
They are stopped. A while later they let off the brake and roll forward towards the car in front of them. 20s or so later they do the same thing. And so on.
And I wonder to myself: "what's going on here?" I don't get it.
The craziest thing I see, and I wonder if this is just California or not, is drivers who stop short at the light with one or two car lengths in front of them - which in itself is nuts. Then they do the whole roll forward thing I described.
The part that bugs me, is if I'm behind someone who does that, pretty soon I'm sitting there with one or two car lengths in front of me. Great, so now I'm the one looking like a dumb-asz!
Usually if that happens I will either ignore it and look st00pid, or I'll kind of "make a big deal of it" and roar forward and close the gap.
Anyway, just wondering if any of the NH folks on the thread have seen this and if so, what do y'all think?
Like I said, this isn't aggressive behavior. OK it's stupid behavior I'll grant you that. But even so, there has to be a reason, and I've been wracking my brains to figure it out and I don't have an answer.
I loved all of the responses here, thank you. I was searching about tail-gating and stumbled across this thread. I was with my son today and got tail-gated hard and I did what most of the sensible advice here said to do which was move to the right then get back to the left after they passed. I have a fast car and I love to drive fast but I feel safest when someone faster than me is in front and although I love my car I don't feel any burning need to prove "I'm best" (I just know I am, ha ha!)
I did think to myself though "why in the heck is this person following so close?" In California we talk about the "two-second" rule and I like to stay three-seconds off the person in front of me if possible - three seconds - that's money!
So the "crazy" person who was tail-gating so viciously - I wondered "what's going on there?" Hence I did a search and stumbled across this board.
And I think one possibility we all should consider is maybe there really was some kind of emergency going on...? For example, G*d forbid one of my family or friends were in a horrible situation let's say in the hospital or something, but I think for sure if something like that happened I would have a hard time laying back like I usually try to do - I'd probably be a bit aggressive trying to get to the situation....
Just thinking, thanks for all the great posts, SDGMCB
They were tailgating you because you were hogging the passing lane. If you're not passing someone you shouldn't be camped out there.
Depending on which state you're in, what the laws are in that state, and which part of the state you're in, actually.
In Texas, SOME parts of the highway are designated left lane passing only by TxDOT, but if they are, they must be clearly marked with specific language specified in the statutes. Otherwise, you can drive in the left lane all you want. There is case law to this effect if the language in the statute isn't clear enough.
Depending on which state you're in, what the laws are in that state, and which part of the state you're in, actually.
In Texas, SOME parts of the highway are designated left lane passing only by TxDOT, but if they are, they must be clearly marked with specific language specified in the statutes. Otherwise, you can drive in the left lane all you want. There is case law to this effect if the language in the statute isn't clear enough.
Most Western states have "obstructing traffic" statutes which specify that the left lane is to be used for passing traffic. By definition, even if you are driving as fast as the posted speed limit in the left hand lane, you are obstructing traffic if you are not passing traffic in the right hand lane(s).
Essentially, you cannot "drive in the left lane all you want" in most circumstances, especially if you are asserting that you can legally do so below the posted speed limit when other traffic would choose to drive at (or even over) the posted limit.
Nope, there is nothing in the Texas statutes that says that the speed limit is removed for the left lane. (I used to be a legal assistant and am pretty good at researching statutes.) There is part of the statutes that says slower traffic keep right, and there is a part of the statutes that says that driving faster than the speed limit is prima facie evidence of reckless driving. Therefore, the part of the statutes that says slower traffic keep right means traffic driving below the speed limit should move right if there is traffic in the left lane going the speed limit. I'm posting the two pertinent statutes below:
§ 545.352. PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS. (a) A speed in excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful. Sec. 544.011. LANE USE SIGNS. If, on a highway having more than one
lane with vehicles traveling in the same direction, the Texas Department
of Transportation or a local authority places a sign that directs slower
traffic to travel in a lane other than the farthest left lane, the sign
must read "left lane for passing only."
That's the law, rather than actual practice. But, as I said, there is case law having to do with a drug stop case that got thrown out because the arresting officer first stopped the vehicle for driving in the left lane, NOT speeding, when, in fact, it was perfectly legal to do so and the court so found according to the statutes. They also made reference to the fact that a left lane is for passing only zone signed 20 miles back did not count because the left lane for passing only zone would have long since expired. In another case the arrest was sustained because the driver was observed driving for five miles in a clearly marked "left lane for passing only" zone. This indicates that the left lane is for passing only only in those areas where it is clearly marked with the required language.
This is, of course, all the law and not what happens in actual practice. But to state that the left lane is only for passing because it is so in your state is inaccurate. That was my point. Laws vary from state to state.
They are stopped. A while later they let off the brake and roll forward towards the car in front of them. 20s or so later they do the same thing. And so on.
And I wonder to myself: "what's going on here?" I don't get it.
The craziest thing I see, and I wonder if this is just California or not, is drivers who stop short at the light with one or two car lengths in front of them - which in itself is nuts. Then they do the whole roll forward thing I described.
Hi sdgcb--
It's not unique to California. I've seen it everywhere. Sometimes, rolling forward can trip the signal actuator, in cases where the light isn't timed. If the car stopped over the actuator and the second car left a gap which just happens to include where the actuator is, then the light will never change.
That said, I always leave a car length or so between myself and the car in front of me. There's several reasons for it, all of which are so I can go around the car in front, if need be:
1) If the car in front dies
2) If the car in front explodes
3) If I'm getting carjacked
#1 has happened a few times, and although I haven't been carjacked, I have left aggressive panhandlers in the dust before. So I'll continue to leave a gap.
So I see this behavior - I can't make sense of it, wondering if you folks have seen it too? I'm stopped at a light, we've got 90s or 2m to go, and various cars around me, about every 20s or so, they let off the brake, roll forward, then step on the brake. I routinely see cars do this 5 or more times while waiting for a light.
They are stopped. A while later they let off the brake and roll forward towards the car in front of them. 20s or so later they do the same thing. And so on.
And I wonder to myself: "what's going on here?" I don't get it.
I have an older car with an FM radio, no CD or satellite service. Sometimes when changing stations (because I hate commercials) the one I'm trying to listen to isn't coming in well - but if I roll forward a few inches the reception really improves.
"(I used to be a legal assistant and am pretty good at researching statutes. " "driving faster than the speed limit is prima facie evidence of reckless driving."
yet I didn't read that in the statute you cited.
it said
" § 545.352. PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS. (a) A speed in excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful.
next, research which states let you exceed the posted limit to achieve a pass of another vehicle.
I'll start you off
Montana.
I believe it is 20mph in excess of the posted limit to achieve the passing of another vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady
Nope, there is nothing in the Texas statutes that says that the speed limit is removed for the left lane. (I used to be a legal assistant and am pretty good at researching statutes.) There is part of the statutes that says slower traffic keep right, and there is a part of the statutes that says that driving faster than the speed limit is prima facie evidence of reckless driving. Therefore, the part of the statutes that says slower traffic keep right means traffic driving below the speed limit should move right if there is traffic in the left lane going the speed limit. I'm posting the two pertinent statutes below:
§ 545.352. PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS. (a) A speed in excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful. Sec. 544.011. LANE USE SIGNS. If, on a highway having more than one
lane with vehicles traveling in the same direction, the Texas Department
of Transportation or a local authority places a sign that directs slower
traffic to travel in a lane other than the farthest left lane, the sign
must read "left lane for passing only."
That's the law, rather than actual practice. But, as I said, there is case law having to do with a drug stop case that got thrown out because the arresting officer first stopped the vehicle for driving in the left lane, NOT speeding, when, in fact, it was perfectly legal to do so and the court so found according to the statutes. They also made reference to the fact that a left lane is for passing only zone signed 20 miles back did not count because the left lane for passing only zone would have long since expired. In another case the arrest was sustained because the driver was observed driving for five miles in a clearly marked "left lane for passing only" zone. This indicates that the left lane is for passing only only in those areas where it is clearly marked with the required language.
This is, of course, all the law and not what happens in actual practice. But to state that the left lane is only for passing because it is so in your state is inaccurate. That was my point. Laws vary from state to state.
snofarmer, you're correct, I should have said driving in excess of the speed limit is unlawful, rather than reckless driving. I was trying to get that typed while rushing out the door to an appointment and mis-typed.
The point remains that the speed limit is not waived for the left lane nor is the left lane automatically reserved for passing except in those areas that TxDOT decides should be and so posts. Went through one of those today, with a temporary sign, not a permanent one. Guess they're going to be playing roads in that area again.
I've reviewed the Texas Transportation Code sections on speed and passing and find nothing to indicate that the posted speed limit may be exceeded for the purpose of passing. I do know a heck of a lot more than I did about railroad crossings, passing emergency vehicles, etc., though, in the course of that!
What's the Montana transportation code statute that specifically allows this?
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