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Old 10-31-2012, 01:44 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,032,019 times
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I'v been watching or reading about commercial air crashes where pilots were totally blind to the conditions on the exterior of their plane, extra ice, flight controls damaged or out of place or any other anomalies that if the pilots could have determined the problem might have been able to correct. So my question is, if you can have cameras to help you parallel park your car why can pilots get the same visual aids.?
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:01 AM
 
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
11,222 posts, read 16,419,497 times
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I think, in all of those situations, the plane is already giving the pilots physical and visual feedback via the controls and the instuments. The cameras would only serve to keep an eye on a problem, after it develops.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:14 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
5,002 posts, read 12,354,936 times
Reputation: 4125
External aids like this already exist to an extent. There are icing sensors and heat probes that detect the onset of ice. And when ice forms on the wing the dynamics of the plane changes so the pilots are pretty aware of that.

When pitot probes and static pressure ports freeze over, there's usually a backup. In the case of the Air France disaster, Airbus admitted that the supplier of those probes had had problems with quality control before and were in the process of replacing them. Usually probes and stuff are quite hot (there are multiple signs around heated sensors ... mechanics can get a NASTY 3rd degree burn from just light contact ... next time you board an airplane after it landed, check out the little probes popping out and see if you can see the heat trails, even in the dead of summer, you can see it, they're THAT hot!).

These days, singular events like a single probe freezing over or ice forming over surfaces that cause them to seal shut don't cause disaster and onboard monitoring by computers ensures that the airplane is still safe and alerts the pilots in case they need to take maintenance and flight precautionary measures.

The problem is over-abundance of information. When all the probes freeze over or some do and they get conflicting readings, it is up to the pilots to decide what is the best course of action. It is during these situations that I prefer a Boeing plane. Yes they have antiquated sticks and columns and wheels, Airbuses have joysticks, but they provide better situational awareness. Pilot pulls on the column, copilot can see it. None of this rubbish about one pilot pulling up the other pulling down and the two canceling each other out.

However a common issue to boeing and airbus both is abundance of information. Something fails that causes common errors, the pilots are inundated with dozens of messages. Inexperienced crews make stupid mistakes or get overwhelmed or forget their training in the stress of the situation. Current research is trying to find a way to collapse important information to easily digestible cues, NASA is looking into reading pilot fatigue, visual acuity, and IR cameras reading emotions to boil information down away, to the point of "push the red button idiot!" if necessary, or even arresting control.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:42 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,097 posts, read 19,694,480 times
Reputation: 25612
Some planes do have external cameras. I believe the 777, A380, and the longer/newer A340s have external cameras directed at the wheels to aid the pilot in taxiing (keeping wheels on pavement).

As a pilot, I would be totally in favor of more external cameras. The NTSB made the same recommendation a few months ago. I think they will become more common on newer certified aircraft. Retrofitting older aircraft probably won't happen because the long certification process discourages upgrades (ironically).

External cameras certainly would have been of great benefit to pilots in past accidents/incidents. No such thing as too much info in my opinion. The problem is often conflicting or inadequate information. An external camera could greatly clarify the existing condition in many cases. Most of the onboard detection sensors are not designed to provide the info that a camera could.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:46 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,097 posts, read 19,694,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
next time you board an airplane after it landed, check out the little probes popping out and see if you can see the heat trails, even in the dead of summer, you can see it, they're THAT hot!).
Really? I never noticed this. What does the "heat trail" look like? On same planes, those probes are only heated when an engine is running or the plane is in the air.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:29 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
5,002 posts, read 12,354,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Really? I never noticed this. What does the "heat trail" look like? On same planes, those probes are only heated when an engine is running or the plane is in the air.
I know on the new 747-8, they get HOT! I remember seeing very strong heat trails (looks like mirage haze) coming from the pitot probes after disembarking one before, and this was in the middle of the desert! And yes, they typically are heated by aircraft power, so unless the APU is running or the engines are running they don't get heated.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:58 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,097 posts, read 19,694,480 times
Reputation: 25612
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
I know on the new 747-8, they get HOT! I remember seeing very strong heat trails (looks like mirage haze) coming from the pitot probes after disembarking one before, and this was in the middle of the desert! And yes, they typically are heated by aircraft power, so unless the APU is running or the engines are running they don't get heated.
Interesting. I guess I'll have to be more observant.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:41 PM
 
20 posts, read 25,615 times
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The airlines aren't as high-tech as cars these days yet. So therefore they don't have any external cameras. Another good reason is because the lens would get damaged quickly going at 600 mph at 5,000 feet. Same reason windows on planes are circular.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:33 PM
 
9,408 posts, read 11,927,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_johnsto1 View Post
The airlines aren't as high-tech as cars these days yet. So therefore they don't have any external cameras. Another good reason is because the lens would get damaged quickly going at 600 mph at 5,000 feet. Same reason windows on planes are circular.
As was pointed out, some airliner aircraft do have external cameras. Also, no airliner is capable of 600 mph at 5000 ft.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Limbo
6,512 posts, read 7,544,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
I know on the new 747-8, they get HOT! I remember seeing very strong heat trails (looks like mirage haze) coming from the pitot probes after disembarking one before, and this was in the middle of the desert! And yes, they typically are heated by aircraft power, so unless the APU is running or the engines are running they don't get heated.

I wouldn't recommend grabbing a handful.

In regards to cameras, I was on a flight where cameras were attached to the nose gear area and then shown in the cabin during taxi/takeoff/landing. That was cool. I believe it was on Air China.
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