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Recently I was at a meeting where development in Baltimore's more economically weak neighborhoods was discussed. I was one of just a few white people in a pretty crowded room. When the group was asked about the biggest problem blocking economic development, the first answer was racism. I'm not sure if everyone agreed, but no one pushed back. I guess this kind of 30,000 foot answer doesn't do any harm. But, since racism is so hard to solve, the group seems to be much giving up on economic development in our lifetimes (or they are very optimistic about changing white people.) I'm pretty sure that many people in that crowd would consider me to be every bit as racist as the unreconstructed George Wallace, but there is nothing that they are going to be able to do to reconstruct me. They are screwed since they have granted people like me control over their communities' futures. I kept my mouth shut.
Anyway, what did bother me was the general opinion that these community leaders wanted to keep white people from moving to their neighborhoods. In my opinion, I don't think they really need to worry about white people moving into the city's most troubled neighborhoods in large numbers. But, none the less, they did seem to be worried. This group, more clearly than any other group that I have been in, defined all white immigration into majority black neighborhoods as gentrification. This group also seemed to believe that gentrification is a major problem that needs to be addressed before it gets out of control.
So, I would like to ask the forum: Do you consider white immigration into majority black neighborhoods to be gentrification per se? Do you think that this kind of gentrification is a major current or potential problem for Baltimore? Or do you think this group of activists reflects the views of people in Baltimore's more challenged neighborhoods in general? Personally, I would prefer that if gentrification is going to become a racial rather than economic issue, then, perhaps, we should come up with a new term.
Recently I was at a meeting where development in Baltimore's more economically weak neighborhoods was discussed. I was one of just a few white people in a pretty crowded room. When the group was asked about the biggest problem blocking economic development, the first answer was racism. I'm not sure if everyone agreed, but no one pushed back. I guess this kind of 30,000 foot answer doesn't do any harm. But, since racism is so hard to solve, the group seems to be much giving up on economic development in our lifetimes (or they are very optimistic about changing white people.) I'm pretty sure that many people in that crowd would consider me to be every bit as racist as the unreconstructed George Wallace, but there is nothing that they are going to be able to do to reconstruct me. They are screwed since they have granted people like me control over their communities' futures. I kept my mouth shut.
Anyway, what did bother me was the general opinion that these community leaders wanted to keep white people from moving to their neighborhoods. In my opinion, I don't think they really need to worry about white people moving into the city's most troubled neighborhoods in large numbers. But, none the less, they did seem to be worried. This group, more clearly than any other group that I have been in, defined all white immigration into majority black neighborhoods as gentrification. This group also seemed to believe that gentrification is a major problem that needs to be addressed before it gets out of control.
So, I would like to ask the forum: Do you consider white immigration into majority black neighborhoods to be gentrification per se? Do you think that this kind of gentrification is a major current or potential problem for Baltimore? Or do you think this group of activists reflects the views of people in Baltimore's more challenged neighborhoods in general? Personally, I would prefer that if gentrification is going to become a racial rather than economic issue, then, perhaps, we should come up with a new term.
I have a really funny meme about gentrification but fun is not allowed on city-data so...
Do you consider white immigration into majority black neighborhoods to be gentrification per se? Yes.
Do you think that this kind of gentrification is a major current or potential problem for Baltimore?
Problem?? It definately has potential. The powers to be want it bad. The next election will be crucial. I call it SAD. It's sad what's happened to Brooklyn NY, Harlem, Detroit, D.C., New Orleans.
Or do you think this group of activists reflects the views of people in Baltimore's more challenged neighborhoods in general? Yes.
Personally, I would prefer that if gentrification is going to become a racial rather than economic issue, then, perhaps, we should come up with a new term.
Why?? Gentrification is appropriate/safe. Would you rather have something offensive like Culture Vulture?
"When the group was asked about the biggest problem blocking economic development, the first answer was racism."
*Interesting comment!
Disagree! It's a big problem, but there are BIGGER problems.
What kind of racism? White racism and Eurocentric hegemony, Black self-hatred/intra-racism and colorism (yeah, this too is major problem). Black folks in Baltimore have been dumbed down to certain degree about many realities of their existence in Baltimore City.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwduvall
Recently I was at a meeting where development in Baltimore's more economically weak neighborhoods was discussed. I was one of just a few white people in a pretty crowded room. When the group was asked about the biggest problem blocking economic development, the first answer was racism. I'm not sure if everyone agreed, but no one pushed back. I guess this kind of 30,000 foot answer doesn't do any harm. But, since racism is so hard to solve, the group seems to be much giving up on economic development in our lifetimes (or they are very optimistic about changing white people.) I'm pretty sure that many people in that crowd would consider me to be every bit as racist as the unreconstructed George Wallace, but there is nothing that they are going to be able to do to reconstruct me. They are screwed since they have granted people like me control over their communities' futures. I kept my mouth shut.
Anyway, what did bother me was the general opinion that these community leaders wanted to keep white people from moving to their neighborhoods. In my opinion, I don't think they really need to worry about white people moving into the city's most troubled neighborhoods in large numbers. But, none the less, they did seem to be worried. This group, more clearly than any other group that I have been in, defined all white immigration into majority black neighborhoods as gentrification. This group also seemed to believe that gentrification is a major problem that needs to be addressed before it gets out of control.
So, I would like to ask the forum: Do you consider white immigration into majority black neighborhoods to be gentrification per se? Do you think that this kind of gentrification is a major current or potential problem for Baltimore? Or do you think this group of activists reflects the views of people in Baltimore's more challenged neighborhoods in general? Personally, I would prefer that if gentrification is going to become a racial rather than economic issue, then, perhaps, we should come up with a new term.
"Anyway, what did bother me was the general opinion that these community leaders wanted to keep white people from moving to their neighborhoods."
*Community leaders can't keep drug dealing, gang warfare and some of their children in check, so what thinks they can keep white people from these neighborhoods?! That is buttocks backwards in my opinion.
Gentrification is when the look and feel and higher property values come to a neighborhood. So it's not just one, lone person that gentrifies a neighborhood. So if you're "the only one" you're just an outlier, not a gentrifier. (I don't even know if gentrifier is a word, but I'm making up one today I guess LOL)
Like most things, I think neighborhoods are best described along a spectrum, and I like to hang around the middle. I'd like to see more neighborhoods (poor or not poor) become more diverse (look, feel, property value). So if you have a poor neighborhood, then some level of gentrification must occur for that to happen. At the same time, what does a wealthy neighborhood becoming more diverse look like? There's no nice term like "gentrification" for that, because all I can think of is terms that make it very clear where the wealth is in this country: urban decay (i.e., majority non-whites of lower socioeconomic class move in) and white flight (i.e., whites of all classes leave in descending order). I mean, I think part of the reason why Baltimore (and many urban areas in the US) is what it is today is because white people saw black people as "all the same", like socioeconomics didn't even apply ... they didn't see a difference between a black attorney moving into the neighborhood and a black beggar moving into the neighborhood, even though socioeconomics says that there IS a difference. They saw all black people as the black beggar.
*Note: "White people" is also a generalization, because it's known that there is social stratification among white ethnicities, i.e., whites with ancestry from parts of northern Europe (England, Norway) were more preferred than whites from other parts of Europe (e.g., Italy, Spain, parts of Eastern Europe), with some of the same socioeconomic disregard we see in the past and still today when black people are treated as a monolith of black beggars. I'm not even going to get started on religion. Anyway, point is you could probably trace a pattern of gentrification within the white population, but we're not exactly talking about that right now.
I'm of the opinion that yes, race, can be the superficial appearance of gentrification. But at the heart of it is socioeconomic class. Because of that, hypothetically anyone (meaning race or ethnic group) can be a gentrifier.This article stands out for me as a good example. I also recommend the documentary Flag Wars.
Socioeconomic class is income/wealth, education and occupation. I think a lot of people don't fully acknowledge that socioeconomic class has three components (yes, some people would argue that it has more components, don't have time for that today) because one part (wealth/income) is the part that has the most immediate impact. And when you don't have enough of that one, it's hard to think about the other two (education and occupation).
So hypothetically, if you're of a higher socioeconomic class and migrating to a neighborhood where the population is predominantly of a lower socioeconomic class, you may become/be a gentrifier. And yes, it can be a big problem because the way socioeconomics works is you bring your "value" with you wherever you go. And if enough of your cohort (people of a higher socioeconomic class) migrate in, it changes the value of and the use of the community.
Race and socioeconomic class are related. There isn't a lot of black wealth in this country for a lot of reasons, and there aren't a lot of black people in this country either (proportionally), so black gentrifiers are "rarer" nationwide. There is a lot of white wealth in this country for a lot of reasons and white people are the largest portion of the population, so gentrification typically is associated with white people.
So to answer your questions:
1. Yes, it can be.
2. It's a potential problem anywhere that's low income for the most part. It probably is a current problem in some Baltimore neighborhoods, like I believe Patterson Park is in the process of gentrifying now. When gentrification is relied on as the final and only solution to a bad neighborhood, it's a problem in my opinion.
3. In the context of the situation you've described, if Baltimore's more challenged (i.e., bad, poor) neighborhoods are predominantly black, you're asking if these are the views of most of the poor black people in Baltimore. I'd guess that they don't all share the same opinion, however I'm sure that many of this cohort are concerned about gentrification because of what it means in the historical context: It's the possibility of both being priced out of neighborhoods they've lived in for x years and watching the look and feel of their neighborhoods change in a way that (likely) excludes them.
4. Gentrification will be closely associated with race indefinitely in most situations because of the historical context we're in. We can't change history. There are two things that can break this association: 1) the population of non-white people increases to the point that they outnumber white people 2) improved socioeconomic status of non-white people. I think the term is fine, I just think we need to stop being ostriches about why wealth is distributed the way it is in our country.
The fact that in your meeting many of the black people there said race is the problem, I think what they're really saying is they don't like how income/wealth is concentrated among white people, and white people don't want to be around them. The root of both is fear of being excluded from their own neighborhood.
That said, I actually agree with you: short term, the issues cannot be fixed. I'm not sure who was moderating/facilitating the meeting, but I personally don't think they were doing the best job if the conversation turned into "how to keep white people out". If you want a group to consider short term solutions to short term problems, you have to also acknowledge what they're saying -- at the minimum -- and offer a/some long term solution to the long term problem. The moderator should have gotten the group to explain what an improved neighborhood actually looks and feels like and start thinking of ways to get there. There are actionable ways to attract economic investment without totally gentrifying a neighborhood, but if the neighborhood is a "bad" or as you say "economically weak" neighborhood, some gentrifying will/must occur. Just have to develop strategies to control/guide it. Which is what I think the meeting should have been about. I'll reduce it to 4 questions:
What does our neighborhood look like? (What's right and what's wrong)
What is gentrification and what do completely gentrified neighborhoods look like? (What's right and what's wrong)
Do we need any aspects of gentrification?
If so, how can we develop a strategy to control it?
Should have also added that I understand that race is more than black and white people, but just trying to get at the core of what we're really talking about.
Oh and when someone describes the people in the meeting as "automatic masochists"... let's hope you're never facilitating a meeting like this. LOL It sounds like you're saying that these people like pain and misery just by existing in and acknowledging the context. Way to shut down any communication:
"Okay, hold up: Let's just pretend that you aren't still working in a factory where asbestos falls like snow and you have mesothelioma, even though we know that asbestos causes cancer: How's your diet and exercise?" LOL
Last edited by lanhvtnymd; 09-06-2015 at 07:51 AM..
Reason: And thanks for also making the my point. Yes, black people are all the same.
Poor blacks don't want whites in their neighborhood. Poor whites don't want blacks in their neighborhood. Poor blacks and poor whites don't want hispanics in their neighborhood. Affluent whites don't want anybody in their neighborhood. And.....
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