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Thank God DC has decent public transit. I don't even want to imagine what it would be like. That does not negate the fact that the roads, highways, etc in and around DC are truely terribly congested; much moreso than Baltimore. I try to use transit in DC and most of the time it is great. However, there are those times when a car is a must and it is pure hell to try to get around with one. Not so in Baltimore.
I've read my share of "Bmore sucks/too much crime,blah,blah,blah threads.
I'm putting Bmore on my list of cities to consider moving too.
I just wanted to know some of the advantages of living in Bmore compared to say Philly or Chicago.
I was born and raised in Philly and even though I still have pride in my birthplace, I had to leave because Philly has issues (crime, high taxes, high insurance, horrible schools, filthy, pot-holed streets, etc.) that it doesn't want to fix. Now having said that, I would still rather live in Philly than in Baltimore hands down because Baltimore has very little to offer compared to Philly or even the District.
Philly is bigger with many more things to do and many more venues to visit. You could spend a week in Philly and still not go everywhere and do everything, however, you can really cover Baltimore in weekend. Plus, Philly is cleaner (hard to believe, right?), safer, easier to drive around in and SEPTA is a much more extensive, reliable and better managed transit system than MTA.
In addition, even though both cities share an unemployment rate of 10.1% (for May 2012, according to the BLS), Philadelphia has more college and universities (including one Ivy League school) and more Fortune 500 companies (four) than Baltimore (one) and more potential employers overall.
Having lived and worked in both cities, the only advantage that I can think of is, Baltimore has a local income tax rate of (3.20% for residents) and Philadelphia has a city wage tax of (3.928% for residents) and (3.4985% for non-residents). However, the Maryland stae income tax rate is 4.75% (for earned income between $3,000 through $150,000) and Pennsylvania has a flat rate of 3%, so it more than balances out.
I was born and raised in Philly and even though I still have pride in my birthplace, I had to leave because Philly has issues (crime, high taxes, high insurance, horrible schools, filthy, pot-holed streets, etc.) that it doesn't want to fix. Now having said that, I would still rather live in Philly than in Baltimore hands down because Baltimore has very little to offer compared to Philly or even the District.
Philly is bigger with many more things to do and many more venues to visit. You could spend a week in Philly and still not go everywhere and do everything, however, you can really cover Baltimore in weekend. Plus, Philly is cleaner (hard to believe, right?), safer, easier to drive around in and SEPTA is a much more extensive, reliable and better managed transit system than MTA.
In addition, even though both cities share an unemployment rate of 10.1% (for May 2012, according to the BLS), Philadelphia has more college and universities (including one Ivy League school) and more Fortune 500 companies (four) than Baltimore (one) and more potential employers overall.
Having lived and worked in both cities, the only advantage that I can think of is, Baltimore has a local income tax rate of (3.20% for residents) and Philadelphia has a city wage tax of (3.928% for residents) and (3.4985% for non-residents). However, the Maryland stae income tax rate is 4.75% (for earned income between $3,000 through $150,000) and Pennsylvania has a flat rate of 3%, so it more than balances out.
Baltimore is a smaller version of Philadelphia. I really do like Philly but I prefer Baltimore only because it is a bit more manageable. If I want to see/do anything in Philly, it's just a hop away. In terms of taxes, they both have issues. The only thing I'll take issue with is your statement about cleanliness. Both have a lot to deal with in that area and I don't see Philly as any different. Oh, and Baltimore's advantage: It's waterfront is way nicer with bike paths/walkways, etc vs. the freeway.
Baltimore is a smaller version of Philadelphia. I really do like Philly but I prefer Baltimore only because it is a bit more manageable. If I want to see/do anything in Philly, it's just a hop away. In terms of taxes, they both have issues. The only thing I'll take issue with is your statement about cleanliness. Both have a lot to deal with in that area and I don't see Philly as any different. Oh, and Baltimore's advantage: It's waterfront is way nicer with bike paths/walkways, etc vs. the freeway.
What freeway are you talking about?
Yeah, Baltimore has the Inner Harbor which is comparable to Penn's Landing (on the Delaware River) but it's not nearly as nice as the East and West Rivers Drives along the Schuykyll River, especially around Boathouse Row and the Art Museum.
However, I do agree with you regarding Philadelphia and Baltimore. Parts of Baltimore remind me so much of Philly, which is why I've always felt that they are sister cities.
Last edited by phlinak; 07-31-2012 at 05:04 PM..
Reason: correction
That's not true at all. My commute was not a long distance. When I lived in Rockville and my office was in Bethesda, the closest Metro stop was right near my office. It made no sense for me to metro, and most people don't consider 12 miles to be a long distance such as you've described coming down to DC from Baltimore, etc. Other offices where I could metro, I still had to commute to get to the metro, so you're still talking an absurdly long commute (within the DMV to another point within the DMV), even using the metro.
Whether or not there are alternative methods to driving in a city does not change the fact that traffic in one city is worse than the other.
What it sounds like you're saying is DC has more transit options. That is true. Does DC have less traffic than Baltimore? That's still a no.
At the end of the day: how many years have you commuted in DC and Baltimore and from where, as you are clearly a party of one (and I'm willing to bet you'd be hard-pressed to find someone that agrees with you on this topic)?
Are you a stay at home parent or do you work from home? Just curious.
For a long time. I've lived in Arlington, Alexandria, DC Proper, Tysons Corner. I've lived in Timonium, Towson, and Patterson Park.
I've had commutes going every which way for the last 15 years.
DC does have more traffic, but it's relative to the population. True, the worst commutes for DC are far worse than the worst commutes for Baltimore. I wouldn't want to live or need to get through Tysons Corner on a regular basis before 2020.
Since 2009, much of the net new traffic in DC metro is because of massive infrastructure improvement projects. As they start wrapping up, especially the purple line, traffic will be much improved.
I don't need to look far to find people who disagree with me. If you want to compare apples to apples, people in Harford County or in Westminster County or near the PA state line who commute into the city core will tell you their commutes are terrible.
For a while I was living in Towson and had a customer I was commuting to in Essex. That was about 5 years ago, and it never took less than 1 hour each way if I left during rush hour, and I doubt the trip was much more than 12 miles.
Getting from Timonium to downtown during rush hour always takes 1 hour, and recently with construction could easily be longer.
I've got a few friends who work at Social Security in Woodlawn. They commute from Perry Hall, and their commute is anywhere from 1-2 hours each way, depending on traffic.
More recently, I've had to commute from Timonium to Reston periodically for work (thank god I don't do that drive daily anymore). I am out my door at 5:45 AM, and it takes me 45 minutes even that early to get to 95.
Had I not read traffic studies myself, I would be skeptical too, but the bottom line is Baltimore's population is growing and that won't change, and it doesn't have the infrastructure to support the current population, let alone the growing population since there is no choice but to drive if you're going somewhere outside your neighborhood.
You can also look at 24/7 historical traffic data in Google Maps - it will show you how it's worsening in Baltimore Metro.
Traffic will worsen at a faster pace than in DC, where they should eventually see relief in traffic. There are major projects, like the 5 or 7 year project to widen the inner and outer loops of 695 which is about to get underway. I can't even imagine what that will do to traffic.
Are you a stay at home parent or do you work from home? Just curious.
For a long time. I've lived in Arlington, Alexandria, DC Proper, Tysons Corner. I've lived in Timonium, Towson, and Patterson Park.
I've had commutes going every which way for the last 15 years.
DC does have more traffic, but it's relative to the population. True, the worst commutes for DC are far worse than the worst commutes for Baltimore. I wouldn't want to live or need to get through Tysons Corner on a regular basis before 2020.
Since 2009, much of the net new traffic in DC metro is because of massive infrastructure improvement projects. As they start wrapping up, especially the purple line, traffic will be much improved.
I don't need to look far to find people who disagree with me. If you want to compare apples to apples, people in Harford County or in Westminster County or near the PA state line who commute into the city core will tell you their commutes are terrible.
For a while I was living in Towson and had a customer I was commuting to in Essex. That was about 5 years ago, and it never took less than 1 hour each way if I left during rush hour, and I doubt the trip was much more than 12 miles.
Getting from Timonium to downtown during rush hour always takes 1 hour, and recently with construction could easily be longer.
I've got a few friends who work at Social Security in Woodlawn. They commute from Perry Hall, and their commute is anywhere from 1-2 hours each way, depending on traffic.
More recently, I've had to commute from Timonium to Reston periodically for work (thank god I don't do that drive daily anymore). I am out my door at 5:45 AM, and it takes me 45 minutes even that early to get to 95.
Had I not read traffic studies myself, I would be skeptical too, but the bottom line is Baltimore's population is growing and that won't change, and it doesn't have the infrastructure to support the current population, let alone the growing population since there is no choice but to drive if you're going somewhere outside your neighborhood.
You can also look at 24/7 historical traffic data in Google Maps - it will show you how it's worsening in Baltimore Metro.
Traffic will worsen at a faster pace than in DC, where they should eventually see relief in traffic. There are major projects, like the 5 or 7 year project to widen the inner and outer loops of 695 which is about to get underway. I can't even imagine what that will do to traffic.
If I were a stay at home parent or worked from home, why would I be commenting about morning commutes? I'm a Baltimore native, and am in my 30s so that gives you an idea of how many years I've been enjoying the Baltimore and DC commutes as a student and a professional.
I suppose all of us will have to agree to disagree, since we're all in agreement except you, and that's okay.
As for most of your post, you're referring to future traffic, while the rest of us seem to be talking about current traffic.
It is what it is, and I suppose does not answer the OP's question any way, so I digress...
In the final analysis, Baltimore (along with Detroit and several other cities) has no decent rapid transit system. And that will always cause greater congestion than in other cities that do (D.C., Boston and New York come to mind). The subways in NYC and Boston were built in the early part of the 20th century, when labor rates were relatively cheap. The lines in NYC were built by competing companies: BMT, IRT, and IND (city-owned). Baltimore had its chance, like Boston, but was not far-sighted enough to develop a rapid transit system when it would have been relatively inexpensive to do so. (Baltimore should have laid a rail line down the median of the JFX, as Chicago has often done in similar circumstances.)
BTW, Baltimore had an elevated line that ran up Guilford Avenue and under the Orleans Street viaduct when I was going to Poly. I rode it for a year and then they tore it down.
I think the only viable rapid transit systems in the U.S. are in Boston and NY. And those cities can't compare with London's UnderGround and Paris's metro, where any address in Paris is within 100 meters of a metro station.
Chicago (where I live) has an elevated and subway system, but unless you are among the fortunate few who both live and work near an el stop (which I did for many years), Chicagoans need rely on at least one bus ride. (Chicago is a big town — it is bigger than its rapid transit system. And in the years immediately after WWII, the CTA chopped off the fingers of its elevated system that reached into the near suburbs, because of you know why.)
One area where Chicago is fortunate is its legacy of late 19th century railroad lines (Chicago & Northwestern, Milwaukee Road, Burlington, Rock Island, etc), whose multiple lines snake out like fingers from downtown ChiTown. A majority of the lines have gone out of business, but their tracks are under the control of our Regional Transit Authority (RTA). The fares are expensive compared to Chicago's CTA subways and elevateds, but the skeptics (like me) soon realized that the railroads were the best way to commute between the 'burbs and downtown.
Are you a stay at home parent or do you work from home? Just curious.
For a long time. I've lived in Arlington, Alexandria, DC Proper, Tysons Corner. I've lived in Timonium, Towson, and Patterson Park.
I've had commutes going every which way for the last 15 years.
DC does have more traffic, but it's relative to the population. True, the worst commutes for DC are far worse than the worst commutes for Baltimore. I wouldn't want to live or need to get through Tysons Corner on a regular basis before 2020.
Since 2009, much of the net new traffic in DC metro is because of massive infrastructure improvement projects. As they start wrapping up, especially the purple line, traffic will be much improved.
I don't need to look far to find people who disagree with me. If you want to compare apples to apples, people in Harford County or in Westminster County or near the PA state line who commute into the city core will tell you their commutes are terrible.
For a while I was living in Towson and had a customer I was commuting to in Essex. That was about 5 years ago, and it never took less than 1 hour each way if I left during rush hour, and I doubt the trip was much more than 12 miles.
Getting from Timonium to downtown during rush hour always takes 1 hour, and recently with construction could easily be longer.
I've got a few friends who work at Social Security in Woodlawn. They commute from Perry Hall, and their commute is anywhere from 1-2 hours each way, depending on traffic.
More recently, I've had to commute from Timonium to Reston periodically for work (thank god I don't do that drive daily anymore). I am out my door at 5:45 AM, and it takes me 45 minutes even that early to get to 95.
Had I not read traffic studies myself, I would be skeptical too, but the bottom line is Baltimore's population is growing and that won't change, and it doesn't have the infrastructure to support the current population, let alone the growing population since there is no choice but to drive if you're going somewhere outside your neighborhood.
You can also look at 24/7 historical traffic data in Google Maps - it will show you how it's worsening in Baltimore Metro.
Traffic will worsen at a faster pace than in DC, where they should eventually see relief in traffic. There are major projects, like the 5 or 7 year project to widen the inner and outer loops of 695 which is about to get underway. I can't even imagine what that will do to traffic.
If it takes you an hour to get from Towson to Essex and 1-2 hours to get from Perry Hall to Woodlawn, then you are either:
In the final analysis, Baltimore (along with Detroit and several other cities) has no decent rapid transit system. And that will always cause greater congestion than in other cities that do (D.C., Boston and New York come to mind). The subways in NYC and Boston were built in the early part of the 20th century, when labor rates were relatively cheap. The lines in NYC were built by competing companies: BMT, IRT, and IND (city-owned). Baltimore had its chance, like Boston, but was not far-sighted enough to develop a rapid transit system when it would have been relatively inexpensive to do so. (Baltimore should have laid a rail line down the median of the JFX, as Chicago has often done in similar circumstances.)
BTW, Baltimore had an elevated line that ran up Guilford Avenue and under the Orleans Street viaduct when I was going to Poly. I rode it for a year and then they tore it down.
I think the only viable rapid transit systems in the U.S. are in Boston and NY. And those cities can't compare with London's UnderGround and Paris's metro, where any address in Paris is within 100 meters of a metro station.
Chicago (where I live) has an elevated and subway system, but unless you are among the fortunate few who both live and work near an el stop (which I did for many years), Chicagoans need rely on at least one bus ride. (Chicago is a big town — it is bigger than its rapid transit system. And in the years immediately after WWII, the CTA chopped off the fingers of its elevated system that reached into the near suburbs, because of you know why.)
One area where Chicago is fortunate is its legacy of late 19th century railroad lines (Chicago & Northwestern, Milwaukee Road, Burlington, Rock Island, etc), whose multiple lines snake out like fingers from downtown ChiTown. A majority of the lines have gone out of business, but their tracks are under the control of our Regional Transit Authority (RTA). The fares are expensive compared to Chicago's CTA subways and elevateds, but the skeptics (like me) soon realized that the railroads were the best way to commute between the 'burbs and downtown.
Your first statement is incorrect is so many ways. Public transit helps ease congestion. However, a city having public transit has no guarantee that congestion will magically disappear or be less than a city without the transit. DC is a prime example. Ask anyone who has to drive in the district or around the district and I believe they would verify that fact.
To compare Baltimore's transit options with Detroit is absurd. Baltimore has a metro line, a light-rail line, two metro heavy rail lines, better bus service, the water taxis, and frequent east coast Amtrak service. Detroit has the loop to nowhere, horrible bus service and one Amtrak line to Chicago. To be fair, Baltimore compares in comparison to the other east coast big guys (NYC, Boston, Philly, DC). But, it's no slouch and has a better transit system than most American cities. Of course, Chicago's transit options are much better than Baltimore's as it should be. By the way, all of those transit options in Chicago still leave it in a cluster-f@@@ if you have to drive in it or through it.
If it takes you an hour to get from Towson to Essex and 1-2 hours to get from Perry Hall to Woodlawn, then you are either:
1.) getting lost on the way
2.) stopping for lunch
or
3.) driving like my granny
Agreed.
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