What is up with Baltimore's highways? (Frederick, Cumberland: buy, school, income)

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Not even close to being enough.

Here are the routes.

Bus Schedules

If you live or need to go anywhere other than that little loop between Cumberland, LaVale, Cresaptown, and Frostburg, you are SOL.

I understand that. But there's something, and it can be expanded if (when) demand increases.

Transit in rural areas will never be as convenient as a car. But that doens't mean it shouldn't exist. Dial-a-ride is a good service for those who don't live on a fixed route (available in many rural areas in the US).

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown

True. So would roads, which are also funded by fuel tax.

I'm all for higher gas tax to fund transit improvements. Reliance on autos may not matter where you live, but it has a very negative impact on where I do.

I also understand that Cumberland has nothing to do with any of that, and I would be open to an income tax in the metro and exurban areas to form and fund a regional transportation district, thereby sparing the western and eastern counties that would see little benefit.

That is all I need, an opt out, even if it is just a kind acknowlegable of fact from a fellow poster unaffliated with urban planning (I think )

Like I say, you guys can do what you want down there, just don't crush us with more regressive taxes by doing it.

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

That is all I need, an opt out, even if it is just a kind acknowlegable of fact from a fellow poster unaffliated with urban planning (I think )

Like I say, you guys can do what you want down there, just don't crush us with more regressive taxes by doing it.

It's an interest of mine but I'm a free agent.

I'm fine with that. I'd like to see the state get out of a lot of our services here in the city, first and foremost: Transit. As MrRational explained, our status as an independent city isn't really to our advantage here.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown

It's an interest of mine but I'm a free agent.

I'm fine with that. I'd like to see the state get out of a lot of our services here in the city, first and foremost: Transit. As MrRational explained, our status as an independent city isn't really to our advantage here.

I actually owe Mr. Rational an apology. I can parse out why Cumberland and Baltimore have different circumstances that lead to the same problems, but in reality, most of our problems are largely the same. Shrinking population, poverty, isolation (a relative term) and a large segement of hopeless people bent on destroying themselves on the installment plan.

[jonjj]

I don't want to interupt your dialog but something is bothering me with the argument.

First and foremost, I want to applaud "westsideboy" for being such an advocate for his area of Allegheny County. It truely is a beautiful area and I respect his right to defend it. By the way, there's some money up there in Cumberland. Go up Washington Street and you see it.

Here is my concern. Yes, transit is paid for by taxes. But roads of any sort are also paid for by taxes. That part isn't stressed enough. So let's use Baltimore Street in the city as an example. Let's say a mile length of Baltimore from President Street going east to Highland Avenue (probably more than a mile). How many cars are using that street in an hour's time? I'm guessing here but I would say in the 1000's. I live on Baltimore Street and can attest to a lot of traffic. Now let's compare that same length of road in rural Maryland. 1000's in an hour? I don't think so. My point? That stretch of road in rural Maryland requires the same amount of upkeep as a busy city street. Same amount of $'s-yet less used.
Subsidized by who? Taxpayers? And where do most of them live? Metro areas.

So you see, the argument about what is to be subsidized and who is to be taxed is a very difficult debate.

For the betterment of the state as a whole, more public transit is a necessity. And interestingly enough, there should be better transit option in the Cumberland area. Lavale should be connected for those who want to shed the car mentality.

Just my two cents. Sorry for the interuption.

[Miss Crabcakes]

Why not jump on 695 and take that all the way down to 295 or 95. That's what I've always done.

[bonovoxpsu]

Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70

Finally someone who agrees with me. In the 70s, 83, 70, and 95 were all supposed to come together in downtown Baltimore. But the liberal radical community organizer, now corrupt politician Barbara Mikulski led "freeway revolts" to save the inner city neighborhoods which are basically destroyed by crime and drugs anyway.I imagine Mikulski was a lot like the young rabble rousing Obama in her younger days. It would be much better if 83 connected to 95, especially if you are trying to drive from DC to Towson. And especially with I-70 not going downtown like it was planned, it would make the commute from Howard County to downtown so much easier. We have a terrible freeway network. And also whats with the SINGLE LANE ramps from 95 to 695, from 95 to 395, from 70 to 695. There is ONE LANE from 95 southbound going to 695 east to Essex. ONE LANE from 95 south to 395. ONE LANE from 95 north to 695 west toward Towson. In Houston or Dallas or even Charlotte or Nashville it would be at least 2 lanes in these instances!!!

This is what we get when we have people like Mikulski and Pelosi here in Maryland.

So let me get this straight..

You would put highways over the areas that are actually really nice in Baltimore? Inner harbor, harbor east, fells point?

[rfp]

Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70

Finally someone who agrees with me. In the 70s, 83, 70, and 95 were all supposed to come together in downtown Baltimore. But the liberal radical community organizer, now corrupt politician Barbara Mikulski led "freeway revolts" to save the inner city neighborhoods which are basically destroyed by crime and drugs anyway.I imagine Mikulski was a lot like the young rabble rousing Obama in her younger days.

It was proposed at the time to run an elevated freeway over Thames Street at the foot of Broadway. I saw the plans. My-girlfriend-at-the-time's mother owned a Spanish Restaurant on South Broadway 1/2 block north of Thames.

Are you familiar with the Embarcadero Skyway along San Francisco's waterfront? No? I thought not. Baltimore's elevated expressway would have been its notorious twin and rival in the annals of destructive urban development.

(The half-built and functioning but never completed Embarcadero freeway was torn down in the early 1990's.)

Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70

This is what we get when we have people like Mikulski and Pelosi here in Maryland.

The city should construct a statue of Senator Milkuski outside an entrance to the Broadway Market in appreciation of her efforts to preserve Fells Point.

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by rfp

The city should construct a statue of Senator Milkuski outside an entrance to the Broadway Market in appreciation of her efforts to preserve Fells Point.

In Leakin Park as well.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by jonjj

I don't want to interupt your dialog but something is bothering me with the argument.

First and foremost, I want to applaud "westsideboy" for being such an advocate for his area of Allegheny County. It truely is a beautiful area and I respect his right to defend it. By the way, there's some money up there in Cumberland. Go up Washington Street and you see it.

Here is my concern. Yes, transit is paid for by taxes. But roads of any sort are also paid for by taxes. That part isn't stressed enough. So let's use Baltimore Street in the city as an example. Let's say a mile length of Baltimore from President Street going east to Highland Avenue (probably more than a mile). How many cars are using that street in an hour's time? I'm guessing here but I would say in the 1000's. I live on Baltimore Street and can attest to a lot of traffic. Now let's compare that same length of road in rural Maryland. 1000's in an hour? I don't think so. My point? That stretch of road in rural Maryland requires the same amount of upkeep as a busy city street. Same amount of $'s-yet less used.
Subsidized by who? Taxpayers? And where do most of them live? Metro areas.

So you see, the argument about what is to be subsidized and who is to be taxed is a very difficult debate.

For the betterment of the state as a whole, more public transit is a necessity. And interestingly enough, there should be better transit option in the Cumberland area. Lavale should be connected for those who want to shed the car mentality.

Just my two cents. Sorry for the interuption.

No interuption, just a continuation of the debate. Yes, there is some money on Washington St., the Dingle and up on Haystack Mountain. But understand that while Washington St. looks wonderful, up to the 300 block are commercial properities, and many of the biggest mansions are now divided up into multiple apartments, nice ones, but rentals none the less. Also we just mentioned about a half dozen streets in towns in a city of 20,000.

I assure you the wealth is well concentrated in a few small areas. The newest trend for the wealthy in our area is to live at Lakewood in......WV, about 10 minutes from Cumberland. Cheaper taxes, lower cost of construction, less onerous zoning and regulatory processes. This development keeps growing in an area that is shrinking.

Also, wear on a street is directly linked to its use. More traffic, more maintenance needed, in theory more money spent to keep the road in good shape (although I have seen the streets in Baltimore...they remind me of Cumberland, better have some good shocks.)

When you get into the rural parts of Allegany County, you are talking about tar and chip or dirt roads with few lines or shoulders except for a handful of "arteries" that are asphalt. These lower quality roads are cheaper to maintain and a large % of all road mileage in the county.

Lastly, a portion of the gas tax is supposed to be kick-backed to the smaller juristictions to maintain their roads, I believe proportionally to what the juristictions pay in (you may want to double check me on that.) Gas tax = Road money. Makes perfect sense, those that use the road system are paying for its upkeep. Similar to taxing mass transit to pay for mass transit...but we know that won't work because people are speaking with their behaviors and choosing cars over trains and buses.