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The continuing "affordable" housing saga continues and has taken me to Nottingham, where Fullerton Elementary & Parkville Middle seems to have good to great ratings, but for some reason Parkville HS has some really HORRIBLE ratings (score & ratings from parents & students) for a magnet school. Any idea why?
Nottingham and Parkville are pretty much the same thing. You can get some cheap real estate there. I remember when the housing bubble burst, that entire area suffered the worse.
The continuing "affordable" housing saga continues and has taken me to Nottingham, where Fullerton Elementary & Parkville Middle seems to have good to great ratings, but for some reason Parkville HS has some really HORRIBLE ratings (score & ratings from parents & students) for a magnet school. Any idea why?
I neither grew up here nor have kids and thus don't know all the specifics about those schools, but I do know that the area feeding into Parkville HS has lots of working-class African American families who moved out from the city in the past decade or so, as well as lots of working-class white families who, to put it nicely, are not upwardly mobile or known for social progressivism. Kids who came from failing city schools + kids with no ambitions after HS = low scores; people who fear anyone different from themselves + large, diverse school = tension and dissatisfaction. That's my guess, anyway. FWIW, I do know several people who started out there, went on to get advanced/professional degrees, and are now doing quite well in life, so it can't be *that* bad. As far as it being a magnet school...at least in MD, it seems like districts usually put magnets in struggling schools. It's a pretty transparent attempt to boost and avoid scrutiny for low numbers (both in terms of enrollment and test scores). Sometimes it works too well, siphoning off the brightest kids or those with the most involved parents from other, similarly struggling schools. Sometimes it doesn't work at all.
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Originally Posted by Tallybalt
I doubt there's noticeable difference between Nottingham and Parkville. If there is one, it's that Nottingham is slightly better off.
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Originally Posted by DubyaM
I don't know the school district boundaries but ,myself, I would avoid Parkville.
Be careful with the broad brushes. Parkville's zip code (21234) covers a pretty big area, including Parkville proper (see above description of HS) as well as Carney and Cub Hill (more middle-class and suburban). The Nottingham zip code (21236) also covers a lot of ground -- some of Overlea, some of Perry Hall, and most of the area around White Marsh. (Strangely, the actual neighborhood of Nottingham -- the area off Philadelphia Road with all the royally themed street names -- is in a different zip code). Both have desirable and less-than-desirable areas, though Tallybalt's point about Nottingham being slightly better off does have some merit.
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Originally Posted by steppinthrax
I remember when the housing bubble burst, that entire area suffered the worse.
I don't know where you get your data from, and I don't have the numbers in front of me myself, but I'd be willing to bet that Owings Mills got hit harder when the housing market imploded, or at least more directly. Nottingham/Parkville in general, and the parts inside the Beltway in particular, both have other issues going on: aging houses that are small by today's standards, aging people in those houses who don't have the means or desire to update beyond the bare minimum, fewer blue-collar job opportunities, and middle-class flight. A lot of people who once moved down the street when they hit adulthood are instead moving to Harford County or PA, where the houses are larger and newer and the schools are whiter, or moving out of the area altogether. That inevitably drives housing prices down. When I was looking at houses, I still deemed the area a safer bet ROI-wise than some of the others I considered (especially Owings Mills/Pikesville), hence why I bought there.
I neither grew up here nor have kids and thus don't know all the specifics about those schools, but I do know that the area feeding into Parkville HS has lots of working-class African American families who moved out from the city in the past decade or so, as well as lots of working-class white families who, to put it nicely, are not upwardly mobile or known for social progressivism. Kids who came from failing city schools + kids with no ambitions after HS = low scores; people who fear anyone different from themselves + large, diverse school = tension and dissatisfaction. That's my guess, anyway. FWIW, I do know several people who started out there, went on to get advanced/professional degrees, and are now doing quite well in life, so it can't be *that* bad. As far as it being a magnet school...at least in MD, it seems like districts usually put magnets in struggling schools. It's a pretty transparent attempt to boost and avoid scrutiny for low numbers (both in terms of enrollment and test scores). Sometimes it works too well, siphoning off the brightest kids or those with the most involved parents from other, similarly struggling schools. Sometimes it doesn't work at all.
Be careful with the broad brushes. Parkville's zip code (21234) covers a pretty big area, including Parkville proper (see above description of HS) as well as Carney and Cub Hill (more middle-class and suburban). The Nottingham zip code (21236) also covers a lot of ground -- some of Overlea, some of Perry Hall, and most of the area around White Marsh. (Strangely, the actual neighborhood of Nottingham -- the area off Philadelphia Road with all the royally themed street names -- is in a different zip code). Both have desirable and less-than-desirable areas, though Tallybalt's point about Nottingham being slightly better off does have some merit.
I don't know where you get your data from, and I don't have the numbers in front of me myself, but I'd be willing to bet that Owings Mills got hit harder when the housing market imploded, or at least more directly. Nottingham/Parkville in general, and the parts inside the Beltway in particular, both have other issues going on: aging houses that are small by today's standards, aging people in those houses who don't have the means or desire to update beyond the bare minimum, fewer blue-collar job opportunities, and middle-class flight. A lot of people who once moved down the street when they hit adulthood are instead moving to Harford County or PA, where the houses are larger and newer and the schools are whiter, or moving out of the area altogether. That inevitably drives housing prices down. When I was looking at houses, I still deemed the area a safer bet ROI-wise than some of the others I considered (especially Owings Mills/Pikesville), hence why I bought there.
I lived in Nottingham for 5 years or so. I was right off Walther Blvd. I paid 175K for a end-unit town-house in 2005. Now it's worth only 150 - 160K....
I don't think it will ever (in one million years) get back up to "pre-housing bubble" levels. Mainly because the area I purchased from was mostly lower-middle-class. Most of these people are still in "short-sale" and Forclosure stages even in 2015.
The area was overbuilt. A lot of new homes were built (around the carmax area) and the area was overdeveloped (Like most parts of Baltimore).
I lived in Nottingham for 5 years or so. I was right off Walther Blvd. I paid 175K for a end-unit town-house in 2005. Now it's worth only 150 - 160K....
I don't think it will ever (in one million years) get back up to "pre-housing bubble" levels. Mainly because the area I purchased from was mostly lower-middle-class. Most of these people are still in "short-sale" and Forclosure stages even in 2015.
The area was overbuilt. A lot of new homes were built (around the carmax area) and the area was overdeveloped (Like most parts of Baltimore).
That's actually not a big drop by bubble standards. The previous owner of my tiny little house paid $80K more for it at the height of the bubble than I did a couple years ago, and six-figure losses are not unheard of. It's also not a universal constant for the area. If you live where I think you did, home prices there didn't decline just because of the housing bubble, but because most of the townhouses have condo associations. A couple years back, FHA really cracked down on its approval process for condo complexes, and a lot of complexes' approvals expired without getting renewed, including the ones there. Unfortunately, that means first-time homebuyers with meager down-payment funds -- i.e., most of the audience for older rowhomes/townhoises in lower-middle-class areas -- can't use low-interest FHA loans and state incentives to buy there. Those people either buy elsewhere or take out subprime mortgages with loan-shark payback terms, then find themselves in short sale or foreclosure within 5 years -- both of which have obviously weakened the housing market in that immediate area. Other area complexes without condo associations have done better regardless of age. As an example, those townhouses off White Marsh Blvd north of the mall were built in the 70s/80s and are definitely showing their age, but still don't sell for less than 250K unless they are really small (2 bedrooms or no basement) or need a lot of updates. As far as new construction goes, most of it is either single family homes in the $350-500K range or condos/apartments built mostly in response to BRAC, which has somewhat cushioned the blow from losing Beth Steel, GM, etc. Most of it is also at the outer edges of this area, which is otherwise pretty much built out.
That's actually not a big drop by bubble standards. The previous owner of my tiny little house paid $80K more for it at the height of the bubble than I did a couple years ago, and six-figure losses are not unheard of. It's also not a universal constant for the area. If you live where I think you did, home prices there didn't decline just because of the housing bubble, but because most of the townhouses have condo associations. A couple years back, FHA really cracked down on its approval process for condo complexes, and a lot of complexes' approvals expired without getting renewed, including the ones there. Unfortunately, that means first-time homebuyers with meager down-payment funds -- i.e., most of the audience for older rowhomes/townhoises in lower-middle-class areas -- can't use low-interest FHA loans and state incentives to buy there. Those people either buy elsewhere or take out subprime mortgages with loan-shark payback terms, then find themselves in short sale or foreclosure within 5 years -- both of which have obviously weakened the housing market in that immediate area. Other area complexes without condo associations have done better regardless of age. As an example, those townhouses off White Marsh Blvd north of the mall were built in the 70s/80s and are definitely showing their age, but still don't sell for less than 250K unless they are really small (2 bedrooms or no basement) or need a lot of updates. As far as new construction goes, most of it is either single family homes in the $350-500K range or condos/apartments built mostly in response to BRAC, which has somewhat cushioned the blow from losing Beth Steel, GM, etc. Most of it is also at the outer edges of this area, which is otherwise pretty much built out.
Yes, I am where you think i am (belmont). Yes all those homes are condos. Yep I got a notice in the mail about renewing the fha license or something about that. The Condo Assoc was supposed to meet and discuss. Based on what you indicated, it probably lapsed and never went forward.
There was a neighbor further down the street from me. She purchased also in 2005 (few months after us). She paid 200K. Then she took out a home equity to do her kitchen. She paid 20K to do a kitchen in that townhouse!!!!!!! Crazy, putting 20K in those homes. We were a little jealous (granite countertops (high end), new appliances, custom cabinets. Lucky we weren't her.....
I lived in Nottingham for almost 20 years (zip code 21236). I always felt safe walking there even at night and the nearby schools such as Perry Hall High seemed very nice. It was somewhat confusing regarding the zip codes and names because although my mailing address was officially "Nottingham" all the neighbors said we lived in Perry Hall and the businesses around there all have "Perry Hall" in their name.
I have the feeling that an actual Perry Hall mailing address would be somewhat better off, than a Nottingham address. The 21236 zip covers a wide area. I don't think there are any questionable areas in Perry Hall proper at least none that I recall.
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