What is an 'Ace' (cards, playoffs, race, record)

[filihok]

Originally Posted by Grandstander

filihook..

Well then, I'll just change my previous post from "frequency of advantage in starting pitching" to "frequency of advantage in run prevention."

That's only half of the change that you need to make.

You're still not accounting for the decrease in the run scoring environment of the Coliseum.

A pitcher with a 3.50 ERA in Oakland isn't half a run better at preventing runs than a pitcher with a 4.00 ERA in Boston.

[Orangeish]

I always wondered if they designed Oaklands park with that result in mind or if it was just some dumb design idea that had results they hadn't thought of. It seems super obvious now, but I have never heard of it being the intent.

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by Orangeish

I always wondered if they designed Oaklands park with that result in mind or if it was just some dumb design idea that had results they hadn't thought of. It seems super obvious now, but I have never heard of it being the intent.

No, the design intent of the Coliseum was for containing a football field for the Oakland Raiders. It was constructed in 1962, six years before anyone knew that a MLB team would be relocating to the East Bay. When Finley moved the A's in 1968, the stadium was adapted to hold a baseball field, which is one of the reasons that there is so much foul territory there. It is leftover football field.

Offense is also depressed because the park is right at sea level, the weather is typically cooler than in most ML venues (except across the Bay), and filihok will probably follow this up with data which confirms or disconfirms it, but having attended several hundred games there, it is my conviction that the night time lighting is inferior, reducing offence via reduced visibility.

[Orangeish]

Ahh, ok...that makes sense, though there have been plenty examples of NFL and MLB teams overlapping in certain stadiums without the funky result. I am guessing the difference is they were baseball fields first, as oppose to the NFL field first?

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by filihok

That's only half of the change that you need to make.

You're still not accounting for the decrease in the run scoring environment of the Coliseum.

A pitcher with a 3.50 ERA in Oakland isn't half a run better at preventing runs than a pitcher with a 4.00 ERA in Boston.

No longer relevant, I am now speaking of the team's ability to prevent runs, not the pitcher's ability alone.

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by Orangeish

Ahh, ok...that makes sense, though there have been plenty examples of NFL and MLB teams overlapping in certain stadiums without the funky result. I am guessing the difference is they were baseball fields first, as oppose to the NFL field first?

There are examples of both around. Candlestick Park was baseball designed stadium which opened in 1960 and did not host the 49ers until 1971, so it was modified to support football as well. Joe Robbie Stadium in Miami, now called SomeCorporateSponsor Stadium, was built to be the home of the Miami Dolphins, but included just-in-case adaptability to baseball, in anticipation of one day getting a ML franchise, which they did in 1993.

The '70's was the golden era of the multi purpose stadiums such as Three Rivers in Pittsburgh, Riverfront in Cincinnati, Veterans in Philadelphia and the Kingdome in Seattle..all designed for baseball, football, and whatever else you could sell there.

[filihok]

Originally Posted by Grandstander

No longer relevant, I am now speaking of the team's ability to prevent runs, not the pitcher's ability alone.

But a team playing against the A's in Oakland also gets the benefit of the Coliseum's run suppression.

So you can't just compare the A's pitching to the league average without factoring in for parks


EDIT: A 3.50 ERA pitcher playing in Oakland with Oakland's defense would not be a 3.50 ERA pitcher playing in Boston with Oakland's defense.

A 4.00 ERA pitcher in Boston with Oakland's defense wouldn't be a 4.00 ERA pitcher in Oakland with Oakland's defense.

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by filihok

But a team playing against the A's in Oakland also gets the benefit of the Coliseum's run suppression.

So you can't just compare the A's pitching to the league average without factoring in for parks


.

Sure you can, perhaps not as accurately, but you can.

In fact I already did.

[filihok]

Originally Posted by Grandstander

Sure you can, perhaps not as accurately, but you can.

In fact I already did.

Sure...GIGO and all that

[Grandstander]

Originally Posted by filihok

Sure...GIGO and all that

I agree, life is like a sewer. What you get out of it depends upon what you put into it.