Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Can't find a thread on this eternal baseball topic so let's start one as a place to post articles that come up in the press.
Article in today's WaPo about the widespread use of substances to alter how a baseball moves on its way to the plate. Seems that saliva, pine tar, resin, sunscreen, jeri curl and other substances have an actual effect on how a ball moves after a pitcher releases it. Sandpaper and sharp objects are also used. The practice is so widespread that everyone accepts it and no one rats out opposing pitchers so their own pitchers will not be questioned about these practices.
I loved watching Gaylord Perry psych out batters with the way he'd rub his hand back and forth above his ear.
__________________
- Please follow our TOS.
- Any Questions about City-Data? See the FAQ list.
- Want some detailed instructions on using the site? See The Guide for plain english explanation.
- Realtors are welcome here but do see our Realtor Advice to avoid infractions.
- Thank you and enjoy City-Data.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 01-18-2020 at 12:29 PM..
Can't find a thread on this eternal baseball topic so let's start one as a place to post articles that come up in the press.
Article in today's WaPo about the widespread use of substances to alter how a baseball moves on its way to the plate. Seems that saliva, pine tar, resin, sunscreen, jeri curl and other substances have an actual effect on how a ball moves after a pitcher releases it. Sandpaper and sharp objects are also used. The practice is so widespread that everyone accepts it and no one rats out opposing pitchers so their own pitchers will not be questioned about these practices.
I loved watching Gaylord Perry psych out batters with the way he'd rub his hand back and forth above his ear.
Back in 1986, they'd check Mike Scott's glove for a tack or sandpaper or whatever else the ball was obviously being scuffed with, but they didn't find anything because it wasn't technically Mike Scott scuffing the baseball. It was the buckle on the strap of Alan Ashby's shinguards.
Since stripping end-of-season awards is a popular topic of discussion this week - Mike Scott was the 1986 NL Cy Young Award winner. He's going to stay that way, just like Jose Altuve is going to remain the 2017 American League MVP.
Then of course there was the generation of juicers and all the hardware they pulled like needles out of their asses.
Somehow, any illusion I had of major league baseball being a place of purity was long gone by adulthood for me.
Back in 1986, they'd check Mike Scott's glove for a tack or sandpaper or whatever else the ball was obviously being scuffed with, but they didn't find anything because it wasn't technically Mike Scott scuffing the baseball. It was the buckle on the strap of Alan Ashby's shinguards.
Since stripping end-of-season awards is a popular topic of discussion this week - Mike Scott was the 1986 NL Cy Young Award winner. He's going to stay that way, just like Jose Altuve is going to remain the 2017 American League MVP.
Then of course there was the generation of juicers and all the hardware they pulled like needles out of their asses.
Somehow, any illusion I had of major league baseball being a place of purity was long gone by adulthood for me.
If a guy from Texas City, Texas, can figure this out, why can't anybody else ?
If a guy from Texas City, Texas, can figure this out, why can't anybody else ?
*sips coffee*
Yeah, Jack, we produce doctors, lawyers, engineers and artists all the time along with the burnouts and tweakers. Most of them leave town and do it somewhere else, but the effects of benzene on our ability to put two and two together are a bit blown out of proportion. A little showmanship on Tony Buzbee's part to convince a jury to help him build that mansion that keeps getting broken into for some reason.
Anyway, this is the baseball sub. As a self-appointed member of the bar before the Court of Public Opinion, it seems to me there's a statute of limitations on bending the rules to gain an edge. I figure Scotty's CYA is up there with the '51 Giants pennant at this point.
Back in the day before social media and its economy of shares and likes, when TV was in its infancy, when free agency wasn't a thing and dudes weren't so regularly going from one club to another every couple years like Mike Fiers does, this recent scheme by the 'Stros might have stayed a dark family secret until somebody's deathbed 50 years from now, like the '51 Giants. There weren't 80 video camera angles, 24-hour news cycles and legions of wannabe Twitter sleuths with nothing more important in their lives to do than parsing over creases in ballplayers' uniforms and Luis Severino's neck.
Yeah, Jack, we produce doctors, lawyers, engineers and artists all the time along with the burnouts and tweakers. Most of them leave town and do it somewhere else, but the effects of benzene on our ability to put two and two together are a bit blown out of proportion. A little showmanship on Tony Buzbee's part to convince a jury to help him build that mansion that keeps getting broken into for some reason.
Anyway, this is the baseball sub. As a self-appointed member of the bar before the Court of Public Opinion, it seems to me there's a statute of limitations on bending the rules to gain an edge. I figure Scotty's CYA is up there with the '51 Giants pennant at this point.
Back in the day before social media and its economy of shares and likes, when TV was in its infancy, when free agency wasn't a thing and dudes weren't so regularly going from one club to another every couple years like Mike Fiers does, this recent scheme by the 'Stros might have stayed a dark family secret until somebody's deathbed 50 years from now, like the '51 Giants. There weren't 80 video camera angles, 24-hour news cycles and legions of wannabe Twitter sleuths with nothing more important in their lives to do than parsing over creases in ballplayers' uniforms and Luis Severino's neck.
What gets me is how unfair it was to release the results of the investigation into the Astros so long before this investigation into the wrongdoers of other teams is complete. We know there is a least one other team involved and rumors of up to 8 others as well. And all that's before any attention is being paid to the doctored baseballs the OP is talking about.
But for several weeks it appears the Astro's are going to be out on the tiles, all alone, to serve as target practice for all these Self righteous blowhards on Twitter and here on CD as well, (social media)ewww.
BTW as you may remember I grew up visiting family in Texas City so I wasn't implying any genetic abnormalities, just that it's you know, Texas City..
What gets me is how unfair it was to release the results of the investigation into the Astros so long before this investigation into the wrongdoers of other teams is complete. We know there is a least one other team involved and rumors of up to 8 others as well. And all that's before any attention is being paid to the doctored baseballs the OP is talking about.
Well, no other teams were involved in the Astros' scheme. The Red Sox had their form of it, but they went a bit more smart about it and were relaying it from the basepaths, and at least tried to add a clearcoat layer of propriety to it. Somehow, the Astros made it all the way though a season before realizing, hey, this isn't really working and somebody's eventually going to ask why there's all that racket from the home dugout right before the visiting team's pitcher throws a breaking/offspeed pitch. This might fly over the head of a guy from Texas City who fell headfirst off the top of a chemical tank in 1979 and has to be reminded that Jimmy Carter isn't the president anymore, but that's not everyone.
Now, having grown up on the mainland of Galveston County and having sampled 31 flavors of stupidity there, that's what I like to think the Astros really got punished for. Being really stupid.
Then there was having Jeff Luhnow's Wall Street pencilneck assistant in the interview room dropping eff-bombs and gloating about trading for Roberto Osuna right after he blew a save, and then the botched PR response after that. It may not have been the subject of the investigation, but it surely didn't pull any get-out-of-jail-free cards from the Community Chest.
Quote:
But for several weeks it appears the Astro's are going to be out on the tiles, all alone, to serve as target practice for all these Self righteous blowhards on Twitter and here on CD as well, (social media)ewww.
I'm reminded of the time one of the dudes I used to hang with down there messaged me and told me he blew his rent money on dope, and doesn't know what he's going to do when it's due. Some problems we just bring on ourselves.
It's obvious to me, from the sustained success across the season on the road, that the lack of offense from some guys in playoff games away was a really a small sample-size aberration and they were legitimately the best team in baseball in 2017. But there's nothing you or me can say that's going to change the minds of anyone else who grew up rooting for one of the teams they beat.
Well, no other teams were involved in the Astros' scheme. The Red Sox had their form of it, but they went a bit more smart about it and were relaying it from the basepaths, and at least tried to add a clearcoat layer of propriety to it. Somehow, the Astros made it all the way though a season before realizing, hey, this isn't really working and somebody's eventually going to ask why there's all that racket from the home dugout right before the visiting team's pitcher throws a breaking/offspeed pitch. This might fly over the head of a guy from Texas City who fell headfirst off the top of a chemical tank in 1979 and has to be reminded that Jimmy Carter isn't the president anymore, but that's not everyone.
It's self proving that only the Astro's were involved in the Astro's scheme, but do You really think that nobody else besides these two teams are going to be investigated for illegal sign stealing ?
MLB Should have waited until all the leads had been followed, because not only is there the public ridicule part of it but also the giant heads up releasing just the Astros portion is going to give other teams who have these issues, as to how these investigations work. Unless the Astros were the only team being investigated MLB should have kept the results and punishments on the QT until they could all be released at the same time.
It's self proving that only the Astro's were involved in the Astro's scheme, but do You really think that nobody else besides these two teams are going to be investigated for illegal sign stealing ?
MLB Should have waited until all the leads had been followed, because not only is there the public ridicule part of it but also the giant heads up releasing just the Astros portion is going to give other teams who have these issues, as to how these investigations work. Unless the Astros were the only team being investigated MLB should have kept the results and punishments on the QT until they could all be released at the same time.
The Astros were busted because a former team member went public. If MLB failed to act on this public information while conducting some long investigation of all teams, the public would criticizing MLB for their "do nothing" reaction. Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, you can't get it back inside while you search to find if any other tubes are leaking.
It's self proving that only the Astro's were involved in the Astro's scheme, but do You really think that nobody else besides these two teams are going to be investigated for illegal sign stealing ?
MLB Should have waited until all the leads had been followed, because not only is there the public ridicule part of it but also the giant heads up releasing just the Astros portion is going to give other teams who have these issues, as to how these investigations work. Unless the Astros were the only team being investigated MLB should have kept the results and punishments on the QT until they could all be released at the same time.
Do you seriously think MLB was going to head into the 2020 season, knowing the Astros did - at minimum - what Fiers alleged in The Athletic piece, letting Luhnow and Hinch work this year while they search every dugout and interrogate every player and clubhouse attendant in the league, because we're trying to see to it that half the league gets suspended at the same time?
The golden rule is you only break one rule at a time, and be discreet about it. The Astros basically tried to haul a kilo across state lines in a Corolla with expired tags and a burned-out headlight, and are being shoved into the back seat of a Crown Vic.
Telling the cop that the tractor-trailer that just passed is probably hauling more dope than that isn't going to get anywhere, or defer your trip to jail.
You know who doesn't go to jail? The people who don't get caught. The Astros got caught because they were stupid. The front office dweeb sending the email openly discussing planting cameras in the stands is probably the biggest fool of them all.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
