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Maybe you can't fault him, but I certainly can. He says:
"Secondly, this isn’t the Best Player in the Game award, it’s the Most Valuable Player award"
Logically, the best player in the game should also be the most valuable. It requires quite the creative interpretation and twisted logic to try to create a scenario where best and most valuable (in basketball terms) aren't synonyms. If you're not the best player, you're not the most valuable. Value is determined by how much a player helps you win. Value is not how much a player (must be on a 50+ win team) is perceived to have overachieved relative to how many games his team hypothetically would have won without him, with bonus points for having never won before and for feel good stories
His supposed distinction is a complete fabrication. The league has never indicated that the award should go to the player most valuable to his specific team situation. It simply says "Most Valuable Player." That's it. And the leauge does not provide any explanation. This interpretation is a figment of his imagination.
"He led the Knicks to their first division title in 19 years."
How is this relevant? Carmelo deserves it more because the Knicks sucked in the 2000s a decade before he arrived? This is the problem. Sports writers are more concerned about feel good stories than who really deserves it.
If there are no set rules for what an MVP, and I want to use the literal meaning of it in regards to one's impact to their respective team, then I can. It is really a subjective award. If you want to go after me, you can, but it doesn't mean you are right.
When you say value is how much that a certain player helps you win, that can be debated too. If your team needs a center, are you going to choose Dwight Howard or Lebron? In this case, Dwight would help the team win more and is a more valuable player to that team.
You are treating it as if it were a "if I were having a fantasy draft, who would I pick first". It's, again, not the best player, but the most valuable player.
You and I have a different opinion on what the word "valuable" means. You think most valuable=best, and I think most valuable=biggest asset to one's own team with the team achieving a certain amount of success. Both arguments are valid, and it is merely viewpoint which determines who is correct.
I came on here to express my opinions regarding this subject matter, and for a lot of you to just come on here and blindly dismiss me shows your one-mindedness and lack of understanding for all aspects of the game.
On a different subject, I kind of wish they waited until the end of the playoffs to vote for this award. Part of being most valuable, in my opinion, is leading your team to postseason success.
On a different subject, I kind of wish they waited until the end of the playoffs to vote for this award. Part of being most valuable, in my opinion, is leading your team to postseason success.
They have a finals MVP award for that as well as various other accolades.
The award is more currently awarded to add excitement to the regular season IMO. It's the prize for best regular season record, or at least being really close to it.
A lot of awards have grown or shrank in stature over the years.
I think the MVP award AND especially the all-star game appearances have lost their luster to some extent.
All-nba selections are more and more the barometer of "best players".
I mean, no one in their right mind looks at Steve Nash's two (almost three) MVP's and thinks he's better than Kobe.
On that note, Melo will be back on the all-NBA team again this year.
If there are no set rules for what an MVP, and I want to use the literal meaning of it in regards to one's impact to their respective team, then I can.
The problem is that that is absolutely NOT the "literal meaning." That is a meaning that you and others have arbitrarily assigned to the words "Most Valuable Player."
Please show me which letters in MVP stand for "in regards to one's impact to their respective team" or where the NBA has stated that that is the intended meaning. That meaning is neither implicit nor implied anywhere outside of peoples' imaginations.
Sure, you can decide that "Most Valuable Player" means whatever you want to. You can decide that it really means the player with the most value to to the team's home city. Then you can vote for Jeremy Lin because Houston has a big Chinese population and the Rockets have a lot of Chinese fans and he gives them someone to root for. You can decide that it really means the player that sells the most tickets and generates the most revenue for a team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David910
When you say value is how much that a certain player helps you win, that can be debated too. If your team needs a center, are you going to choose Dwight Howard or Lebron?
I'll choose Lebron and trade for a center because he's a lot more valuable than Dwight Howard. He's going to give me a better chance to win a championship. That's an easy one. He just won a championship without anything resembling a decent center.
Let's say you need a power forward, are you going to choose Michael Jordan or Karl Malone? If you choose Karl Malone, you're the worst GM in league history.
20, 30, 40 years from now people will use MVPs to compare Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc. If the award depends on the positional needs of the team, something that has absolutely nothing to do with a player's abilities, then don't even bring up who won how many MVPs in player comparisons because the award is completely meaningless and irrelevant to the discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David910
You are treating it as if it were a "if I were having a fantasy draft, who would I pick first". It's, again, not the best player, but the most valuable player.
Again, you're fabricating that distinction.
If Lebron and Carmelo were both on the trade market, would teams offer more for Lebron or Carmelo? They would offer a hell of a lot more for Lebron. Most of them would trade their whole roster and their first born child for Lebron. Don't you find it strange that teams would be willing to offer much less in a trade for a "more valuable" player?
Quote:
Originally Posted by David910
I came on here to express my opinions regarding this subject matter, and for a lot of you to just come on here and blindly dismiss me shows your one-mindedness and lack of understanding for all aspects of the game.
I was quoting and responding to what was written by the sports writer who voted for Carmelo. I was not even addressing you at all in that post. And someone arguing that CARMELO is more valuable than LEBRON saying that I'm showing a lack of understanding of all aspects of the game is asinine. No one who understands basketball would ever say that Carmelo Anthony is more valuable than Lebron James. It's not even close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David910
On a different subject, I kind of wish they waited until the end of the playoffs to vote for this award. Part of being most valuable, in my opinion, is leading your team to postseason success.
It's a regular season award. Playoffs have nothing to do with it, that's why they have a finals MVP too.
Last edited by EugeneOnegin; 05-07-2013 at 03:53 PM..
The problem is that that is absolutely NOT the "literal meaning." That is a meaning that you and others have arbitrarily assigned to the words "Most Valuable Player."
Please show me which letters in MVP stand for "in regards to one's impact to their respective team" or where the NBA has stated that that is the intended meaning. That meaning is neither implicit nor implied anywhere outside of peoples' imaginations.
Sure, you can decide that "Most Valuable Player" means whatever you want to. You can decide that it really means the player with the most value to to the team's home city. Then you can vote for Jeremy Lin because Houston has a big Chinese population and the Rockets have a lot of Chinese fans and he gives them someone to root for. You can decide that it really means the player that sells the most tickets and generates the most revenue for a team.
I'll choose Lebron and trade for a center because he's a lot more valuable than Dwight Howard. He's going to give me a better chance to win a championship. That's an easy one. He just won a championship without anything resembling a decent center.
Let's say you need a power forward, are you going to choose Michael Jordan or Karl Malone? If you choose Karl Malone, you're the worst GM in league history.
20, 30, 40 years from now people will use MVPs to compare Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc. If the award depends on the positional needs of the team, something that has absolutely nothing to do with a player's abilities, then don't even bring up who won how many MVPs in player comparisons because the award is completely meaningless and irrelevant to the discussion.
Again, you're fabricating that distinction.
If Lebron and Carmelo were both on the trade market, would teams offer more for Lebron or Carmelo? They would offer a hell of a lot more for Lebron. Most of them would trade their whole roster and their first born child for Lebron. Don't you find it strange that teams would be willing to offer much less in a trade for a "more valuable" player?
I was quoting and responding to what was written by the sports writer who voted for Carmelo. I was not even addressing you at all in that post. And someone arguing that CARMELO is more valuable than LEBRON saying that I'm showing a lack of understanding of all aspects of the game is asinine. No one who understands basketball would ever say that Carmelo Anthony is more valuable than Lebron James. It's not even close.
It's a regular season award. Playoffs have nothing to do with it, that's why they have a finals MVP too.
Yes, MVP is most valuable player. Which player is most valuable to the success of the team he's on. That would be Carmelo.
I would absolutely choose Dwight Howard over Lebron for the center position. Yeah, he's the best player in the game, but that doesn't mean he can play any position (although he can definitely play the 2,3, and 4).
I have to disagree about your response about 20, 30, 40 years later. People will be talking about championships when it comes to franchise players, MVPs will be an afterthought.
Yes, many people would trade a lot for Lebron, but it doesn't mean it will fit what their team needs.
Lebron fits every teams need .... To say otherwise is incomprehensible ....... Lebron is that much better than anyone else
If you were Portland our Indy in the 90s and Jordan becomes available do you pass on him because of Drexler or Miller? Of course not ..... While they had a good situation every team could use the best player in the league
Lebron fits every teams need .... To say otherwise is incomprehensible ....... Lebron is that much better than anyone else
If you were Portland our Indy in the 90s and Jordan becomes available do you pass on him because of Drexler or Miller? Of course not ..... While they had a good situation every team could use the best player in the league
Yep, you take the best player you can and then build around him. No team is passing up Lebron or Durant because they already have Rudy Gay and Nicolas Batum. No team is taking Patrick Ewing over Michael Jordan because they have Mitch Richmond and no center. You take the best player and build around them because 90% of the time a team with one of the top 2 or 3 players wins the championship. Even in the draft they say always take the best player available.
If we look at the pure definition of "MVP", being the most valuable player to one's team in it's success, it has to go to Carmelo. The best way to show this is if Lebron was taken off the Heat as they are structured now, they would still be at four five seed, capable of winning a series or two, whereas if Carmelo was taken off the Knicks, they would be a seven or eight seed AT BEST, capable of winning a playoff GAME or two. In Cleveland, Lebron totally deserves his MVP awards, and I do believe he is the BEST player in the league, just not the most valuable.
If Lebron and Carmello switched teams. Knicks would be much better than the heat. Lebron is clearly MVP. The criteria you are using makes very little sense. Who's supporting cast is worse is hardly an accurate way to determine who is the mvp.
If Lebron and Carmello switched teams. Knicks would be much better than the heat. Lebron is clearly MVP. The criteria you are using makes very little sense. Who's supporting cast is worse is hardly an accurate way to determine who is the mvp.
It's not who's supporting cast is worse, it's who has been more valuable to his team's success this season. And I would say Carmelo.
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Carmelo not even close
