Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
For whatever reason there is no thread for us Laker fans this season so i'll start it. My topic for today is Andrew Bynum? I have watched every Laker game this season and I'm very impressed. I am starting to think Bynum will be a star and there was a method to mangagements madness. Has anybody been paying attention to Bynum?
Well, he's still pretty young so they brought him along slowly. Last years numbers were so-so....and he's still starting behind Mihm so thats an indicator (along with his fouls per game) that his defense is what's probably keeping his minutes down. (A noted Phil Jackson requirement)
His production is up but it's early....Like pretty much everyone in the league if he learns to play D pretty well then he will be a big name.
Look down the past All-NBA teams and with a few exceptions they are all very good defenders.
Well, he's still pretty young so they brought him along slowly. Last years numbers were so-so....and he's still starting behind Mihm so thats an indicator (along with his fouls per game) that his defense is what's probably keeping his minutes down. (A noted Phil Jackson requirement)
His production is up but it's early....Like pretty much everyone in the league if he learns to play D pretty well then he will be a big name.
Look down the past All-NBA teams and with a few exceptions they are all very good defenders.
Good points, although I would argue that he is already a presence on defense, and struggles with making the correct rotations and things like that. Bynums fouls (2.8 per game not bad) tend to be an issue of being out of position in many instances not poor " man to man defensive ability". His basketball IQ will grow in due time (No College). It is very early like you stated, but I see a major difference in his conditioning (finally some body definition!) and he is playing with much more knee bend than before. I am not a big fan of Laker management, but I think they got this one right. If it were up to Kobe we would have a 34 year old point guard (I LOVE KID BY THE WAY) that nobody knows how long he will hold up and he would have been 36 in 2 years when Kobe could opt out, which would not have made him attractive to Kobe at that time anyway. I think this is the only way we can build a franchise in the west. You can't just add an AI or a Kidd and expect all these talented teams (Spurs, Suns, Mavs) that have had their cores together seemingly forever to roll over. Big men (except lazy Shaq) last forever and this kid is a keeper. If Kobe is here next year and he does not allow his ego to stop him from deferring a bit to a 21 year old I really think this kid will be an all star in February of 09. I'll be very diappointed if we don't trade Kwame and his expiring contract by the deadline because we don't need him anymore.
Good points, although I would argue that he is already a presence on defense, and struggles with making the correct rotations and things like that. Bynums fouls (2.8 per game not bad) tend to be an issue of being out of position in many instances not poor " man to man defensive ability". His basketball IQ will grow in due time (No College). It is very early like you stated, but I see a major difference in his conditioning (finally some body definition!) and he is playing with much more knee bend than before. I am not a big fan of Laker management, but I think they got this one right. If it were up to Kobe we would have a 34 year old point guard (I LOVE KID BY THE WAY) that nobody knows how long he will hold up and he would have been 36 in 2 years when Kobe could opt out, which would not have made him attractive to Kobe at that time anyway. I think this is the only way we can build a franchise in the west. You can't just add an AI or a Kidd and expect all these talented teams (Spurs, Suns, Mavs) that have had their cores together seemingly forever to roll over. Big men (except lazy Shaq) last forever and this kid is a keeper. If Kobe is here next year and he does not allow his ego to stop him from deferring a bit to a 21 year old I really think this kid will be an all star in February of 09. I'll be very diappointed if we don't trade Kwame and his expiring contract by the deadline because we don't need him anymore.
1) The points I made about his defense are key though. All of these guys have big athletic bodies and can jump\block shots etc....IF he learns the team defense thing he'll shoot way up in ability and minutes.
2) Most guys don't start playing their best ball until age 26 or so. I'm not sure he'll be an all-star in 2009 but he's certainly tracking well.
3) Good point on the conditioning thing.
Frankly, by the time this guy develops his full potential....Kobe will be on the down-slide skill wise. I think that trading Kobe for young talent would make an awful lot of sense right now. They just don't have the right pieces.
P.S. Lazy Shaq is the one that got LA those rings. ;-) Kobe was not at his prime during those championship runs....he was more like penny hardaway at that time and has since gotten better.
1) The points I made about his defense are key though. All of these guys have big athletic bodies and can jump\block shots etc....IF he learns the team defense thing he'll shoot way up in ability and minutes.
2) Most guys don't start playing their best ball until age 26 or so. I'm not sure he'll be an all-star in 2009 but he's certainly tracking well.
3) Good point on the conditioning thing.
Frankly, by the time this guy develops his full potential....Kobe will be on the down-slide skill wise. I think that trading Kobe for young talent would make an awful lot of sense right now. They just don't have the right pieces.
P.S. Lazy Shaq is the one that got LA those rings. ;-) Kobe was not at his prime during those championship runs....he was more like penny hardaway at that time and has since gotten better.
All good points. Shaq is a polarizing figure for all Laker fans. I think he is great when he is motivated, but unfortunately I think we squeezed as much motivation as we could from him and so has Miami. I think the Lakers were in a tough spot. I don't think there is anyway in hell Kobe was coming back that offseason if Shaq returned. Quite frankly I wouldn't have either. Would you want to bust your behind every summer to defer the team to guy that does nothing all summer and enters camp 40 pounds overweight, then he gets injured due to the excess weight during the regular season, you have to carry the team throughout the season only to be told in playoffs its Shaq time. I would have left for the Clippers too. With all that being said as a Laker fans I am grateful for all Shaq contributed to the Lakers over the years, but I am glad he will be overpayed an wasting a way the next few years in Miami.
I completely agree with trading Kobe. What bothers me is everybody is saying we can't find a deal for Kobe which is completely untrue. Kobe's no trade clause is killing us. There are plenty of great/fair deals for Kobe. For example I would take Joe Johnson and Josh Smith or Carmelo Anthony and a couple picks for Kobe and move forward, but he is saying Chicago, Phoenix or New York. New York? No Chance. Phoenix? I actually think Amere and , Barbosa and Atlanta's number 1 pick (Phoenix has the rights to that pick this year) would be one hell of a package, but I can understand them not wanting to trade Kobe within the Pacific. Basically he has left us with one option which gives us no leverage in a deal. I am praying for Chicago to continue this slow start. I would take Deng, Gordon Thomas (and nothing less) for Kobe, they can keep Noah (overrated). I think what actually will happen is this underrated Laker team gets to the playoffs and for once don't have to play Phoenix and actually get out the first round. Suddenly there will be optimism in LA. I really do think we were good enough to get out of the first round these last 2 years, but in order to beat Phoenix you have to be extremely disciplined defensively and we just weren't at that point yet. Phoenix is a bad matchup for us and may still be. The luck of the draw counts big time in the playoffs (ask Dallas). If they play Golden State this year in the playoffs they are going home again, but that doesn't make them a bad team and it doesn't mean anyone can beat them. You know your stuff though! Its hard to find true Laker fans (not bandwagon hoppers) on the east coast. Thanks for your posts.
All good points. Shaq is a polarizing figure for all Laker fans. I think he is great when he is motivated, but unfortunately I think we squeezed as much motivation as we could from him and so has Miami. I think the Lakers were in a tough spot. I don't think there is anyway in hell Kobe was coming back that offseason if Shaq returned. Quite frankly I wouldn't have either. Would you want to bust your behind every summer to defer the team to guy that does nothing all summer and enters camp 40 pounds overweight, then he gets injured due to the excess weight during the regular season, you have to carry the team throughout the season only to be told in playoffs its Shaq time. I would have left for the Clippers too. With all that being said as a Laker fans I am grateful for all Shaq contributed to the Lakers over the years, but I am glad he will be overpayed an wasting a way the next few years in Miami.
I completely agree with trading Kobe. What bothers me is everybody is saying we can't find a deal for Kobe which is completely untrue. Kobe's no trade clause is killing us. There are plenty of great/fair deals for Kobe. For example I would take Joe Johnson and Josh Smith or Carmelo Anthony and a couple picks for Kobe and move forward, but he is saying Chicago, Phoenix or New York. New York? No Chance. Phoenix? I actually think Amere and , Barbosa and Atlanta's number 1 pick (Phoenix has the rights to that pick this year) would be one hell of a package, but I can understand them not wanting to trade Kobe within the Pacific. Basically he has left us with one option which gives us no leverage in a deal. I am praying for Chicago to continue this slow start. I would take Deng, Gordon Thomas (and nothing less) for Kobe, they can keep Noah (overrated). I think what actually will happen is this underrated Laker team gets to the playoffs and for once don't have to play Phoenix and actually get out the first round. Suddenly there will be optimism in LA. I really do think we were good enough to get out of the first round these last 2 years, but in order to beat Phoenix you have to be extremely disciplined defensively and we just weren't at that point yet. Phoenix is a bad matchup for us and may still be. The luck of the draw counts big time in the playoffs (ask Dallas). If they play Golden State this year in the playoffs they are going home again, but that doesn't make them a bad team and it doesn't mean anyone can beat them. You know your stuff though! Its hard to find true Laker fans (not bandwagon hoppers) on the east coast. Thanks for your posts.
Excellent points.
Don't get me wrong....I'm not really a lakers fan. I'm an NBA fan with the Bulls being my #1 team. I do like Phil Jackson though and I like Shaq and Kobe. (You perfectly described the Shaq\Kobe situation)
There is no way the Bulls give up all that for Kobe. Deng and Gordon are on par with Jermaine O'neal when you look at efficiency ratings (40-50th ranked) and they are YOUNG. It's just too much to give up.
The sticking point is that the Bulls don't have to trade and if the Lakers want to move Kobe....they're just going to have to accept less than market for him which is pretty much one young star and then picks and back-up type guys.
Realistically, look around the league....ignore the trade clause and what do you get for Kobe? Would you ask Utah for Williams and Kirilenko or ask Dallas for Dirk and another starter? Kobe is the best guard in the league and arguably in the top 3 or 5 depending on how you want to judge things. He isn't getting any younger though and you can't gut your team to have Kobe and a bunch of mediocrity or you wind up in the same boat the Lakers are in.
But hey, at least you aren't in the same boat as Pheonix......grossly over-rated....expected to win it all by many.....and will never ever get there.
I'm glad the Lakers got my boy Fisher back. Mediocre player I guess, but I admire his heart for the game and his dedication to never give up and be a team player.
Also like Cook......yeah he isn't the best either, but there is something about him. Maybe his akward shot that always seems to fall from behind the arch? Plus he is young and I gotta go for the youngin' who seemed to be very shy on the court a few years back.
I'm glad the Lakers got my boy Fisher back. Mediocre player I guess, but I admire his heart for the game and his dedication to never give up and be a team player.
Also like Cook......yeah he isn't the best either, but there is something about him. Maybe his akward shot that always seems to fall from behind the arch? Plus he is young and I gotta go for the youngin' who seemed to be very shy on the court a few years back.
Fisher is cool, but I would prefer him as a backup. Cook can shoot, but he can't guard anyone. I do think he would be a more productive point guard on a team with a drive and kick type of point guard. Cook wasn't so shy last year when he told Phil he wasn't going in the game.lol
1/3 of the season is complete and here is what I can say about the roster.
Kwame Brown - Great trade bait (expiring contract) or good backup center
Lamar Odom - Frustrating at times, but makes his presence felt whether he scores or not
Luke Walton - Doesn't seem to fit anymore. Might need to trade.
Kobe Bryant - Can't stand him, but the best player in the NBA (Ask Prince Lebron James)
Derek Fisher - The best free agency pick up by any team this offseason hands down. Never misses an open shot.
Jordan Farmar - Good young point guard. Will never be an all star, but he will be the starting point giuard for someones championship team
Trevor Ariza - Best trade that will be made during this season. When an underrated GM builds a deep roster you can make 2 for 1 trades and just worry about the one you got in return. This one can't shoot, but nobody in this league is more athletic.
Ronny Turiaf - Undersized and shouldn't play much, but he is a good 11th man and good for team chemistry.
Andrew Bynum - Will be the third best center in the league within 2 years. Already top 5 now. Anybody still want to trade him for Kidd?
Chris Mihm - Good 12th man right now at a reasonable salary, but he may improve as the season progresses because he is coming off a foot injury that he missed the entire season.
Sasha Vujacic - Plays very hard, but lacks the quickness and athletisism to compete on a nightly basis. A good 12th man, but hes in the top 8, but hey hes Kobe's backup. How much is he relied upon anyway.
Vlade Radmonovic - Soft, bad defender (although he does make an effort). A bit overpaid, but everybody in the NBA has an overpaid shooter on their roster.
This roster is young, yet experienced with no terrible contracts. A present franchise player (Kobe) and a future franchise player (Bynum). Young up and coming role players under age 23 (Farmer, Ariza). I didn't even mention rookie Crittenton who might be special in a few years as well.
The MVP of the 2007 - 2008 NBA season is............................... Laker GM Mitch Kupchak. He has proven all of the haters wrong and now everyone should get off his back.
Last edited by ogplife; 12-26-2007 at 03:50 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm an NBA fan with the Bulls being my #1 team. I do like Phil Jackson though and I like Shaq and Kobe. (You perfectly described the Shaq\Kobe situation)
Two thirds to go
