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A former spouse paid something like $25K for some vacant land years ago, a 25 acre lot in the middle of BFE; by the time I met/married him and he took me to see it, I talked to him really seriously about what life would actually be like there, he agreed that we needed to sell it. It was on the market for 8 years and we finally got $8K for it...the only offer we ever had for it. He decided to just cut his losses and take the $8K. $8K was better than $0K.
Got curious and google mapped the area...that land was sold 8, 9 years ago...the whole area is still largely unbuilt, a house or two here and there miles from one another, he probably bought that land about 20 years ago and it's still worth nothing.
Hi all- my husband and I are looking at moving from CA to HI and eyeing up some of those long, narrow parcels in Fern Forest...were thinking of buying two, three acre parcels. We are okay with pakalolo growers and living off the grid. Our plan would be to clear two areas for yurts (one for us and one for parents), have a composting toilet and solar panels for electricity. We would most likely need to commute to Hilo a few days/week for work and would eventually want to get wireless internet on site. My biggest concerns are; the culture of the community (are people friendly with outsiders?), what is the crime level, and Vog (if we use a rainwater catchment system- should we be concerned with water being contaminated)? Also, does anyone know if yurts are allowed in Fern Forest and how they hold up against the rain? Any information would be very much appreciated. Thanks!
You might "be okay" with the pakalolo growers, but are you sure they'll be okay with you? Crime in the area? Growing pakalolo is a crime. And its the worst kind of crime because its a federal offense. This means that the usual lackadaisical attitude the local police have concerning crime in FF does not apply.
Yurts were developed for the cold highlands of Mongolia. Some people have them on the Big Island, but the stories of living in them are not all pleasant. You might try a search on Punaweb. Make sure you talk to some people who have actually lived in them before you talk to the people selling them. Ventilation is key for a home here. And it seems like yurts are designed to keep drafts out.
Be careful of clearing too much of the forest. The rain and year round warmth causes things to grow quickly. Invasive weed plants move in quickly and provide you with a full time job keeping them under control. You might consider clearing just for a drive way and home sites first. You'll make your neighbors happier, too. Lots of locals do not appreciate people coming in and clearing the forest, especially people from CA.
Spend time at the lots you are thinking of buying. Even if this means spending a few nights in your rental van on the property. What seems like a nice quiet area during the day, might not be the same at night.See what its like after people get home from work.
Your catchment tank is covered (the water for it comes off of the roof of your home through pipes) and you'll filter the water before you drink it.
Your idea of buying 2 side by side spaghetti lots is great. It makes a big difference.
Hi all- my husband and I are looking at moving from CA to HI and eyeing up some of those long, narrow parcels in Fern Forest...were thinking of buying two, three acre parcels.
First of all, don't buy anything without spending some time in the area first. If you don't follow any other suggestion, do this. Seriously. At least 6 months, if you can manage it. And visit the property you are thinking of buying at all times of day and night and in various weather conditions. No kidding.
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Originally Posted by hawaiianvice
We are okay with pakalolo growers and living off the grid. Our plan would be to clear two areas for yurts (one for us and one for parents), have a composting toilet and solar panels for electricity.
Fine, fine, but you will need to get building permits, and all your electrical and plumbing work has to be done by licensed electricians and plumbers. The "wild west" days are over.
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Originally Posted by hawaiianvice
We would most likely need to commute to Hilo a few days/week for work and would eventually want to get wireless internet on site.
Work in Hilo is hard to find, so good luck with that. Wireless internet? Due to the terrain both cell phone reception and wireless internet are quite iffy. Some places do OK, some are completely hopeless. It is something you have to check out on an individual basis.
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Originally Posted by hawaiianvice
My biggest concerns are; the culture of the community (are people friendly with outsiders?),
Uhhhh, it all depends. There isn't much community, nor much culture, mostly it's just rugged individuals doing their own thing. Some are friendly, some are not. A lot of them just want to be left alone. Especially the meth labs. That's why you need to spend some time in the area, to find out specifically what you're dealing with on a particular property.
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Originally Posted by hawaiianvice
what is the crime level,
Mostly property crimes, as long as you stay off other people's land. Building supplies and tools left out will disappear overnight. Count on it.
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Originally Posted by hawaiianvice
and Vog
Fern Forest doesn't get a lot of vog, because the prevailing winds tend to blow it away, southwest from the vents, but there are times when it will be bad. Spend some time checking these sites to follow the patterns:
(if we use a rainwater catchment system- should we be concerned with water being contaminated)?
Patricia McComber at CTAHR (College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources) in Hilo is one of the top experts on rainwater catchment in the world. You can download her free booklet on Rainwater Catchment Systems for Hawai'i at:
Once you're in the area you can even pick up a free hard copy at the County Extension office.
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Originally Posted by hawaiianvice
Also, does anyone know if yurts are allowed in Fern Forest and how they hold up against the rain?
Without debating the pros and cons of yurts with you, I'll simply note that I've got neighbors who have a fully permitted yurt, on the grid, who've been there many years. The biggest downside I see is that it's impossible to hold a conversation in one when it's raining hard.
There are several yurt builders on the Big Island who are familiar with the challenges (ventilation, mold, etc.), and have designs that are appropriate for the various microclimates found in the area. Space-age materials are used now, which give long life even in the rainiest corners. Here's one I've talked to personally... ran into her at the general store in Kurtistown, saw the logo on her truck, talked story with her a while, seems like a very solid business person... she should be able to advise you about the impact of the new building codes on your plans.
Interesting followup on yurts... just got an email from Melissa Fletcher at Yurts of Hawaii. She says she has been through a full review of the new building codes, has met with the County, and is able to provide designs which are permittable under current regulations. I'd say she knows more about the subject than anyone at this point.
I think a lot of folks use the term "yurt" like they do "living off the grid", it's more of a romanticized lifestyle idea than an actuality they are likely to be comfortable with. Frequently, the reality doesn't match their idea of what it will be if they ever get around to actually "living the dream". A dream is a good place to start, but it still needs to be livable. The infrastructure of your life will change how you live your life. Maybe a yurt is a good choice, maybe not. But get a little educated before making a choice. Folks occasionally decide on a specific construction method using preconceived notions that may or may not actually have anything to do with reality. But at this stage, which is more or less trying to visualize a dream, looking outside the box is good. Just don't be concrete about choices made without research.
Think things through. If you relocate yourself out in the middle of an undeveloped area, how that will constrain your lifestyle choices? Want to throw a party? Well, only invite folks who can walk in (not any or very many when you are that remote) or only invite folks who have a 4WD or send out a 4WD to ferry folks in. Want to go to town to see a movie? Well, that's a forty five minute trip that is going to consume four gallons of gas at the current rate of about $5 per gallon. So twenty dollars in gas and an hour and a half trip time means you aren't going to go see movies often. Plan on commuting to town for work? Is there a bus? Does the schedule actually work if you had employment in town? (Is there even employment available in your field?) How much will it cost to get to work and/or supplies.
When choosing a place to live, consider what sort of day to day options that choice will give you. The OP above is considering parking themselves and their presumably aging parents off into a remote spot which doesn't have much social interaction nor any medical facilities nearby. After a few months or a year of being that far from most social interaction and supplies it wouldn't be surprising if they decide to move back to where they were before that had more creature comforts. I suspect it might be that the folks who want to move to Hawaii are looking for a change in their life and don't realize that just moving to the islands is a pretty big change all by itself.
Downsides of buying affordable BIG ISLAND land and doing nothing with it for 20 years?
With prices so low...$6,000 or whatever they can be had for. But what are the downsides of that?
How much is property tax on something like that per year? Any other major downsides? I'm sure there are plenty of reasons NOT to do that (or else everyone would)...
But, just curious, some of the more obvious or not-so-obvious reasons...?
In the big picture of what you will be earning over the next 20 years, $6K is probably a drop in the bucket. Heck, I saw a TV today for $4,999! I bet THAT won't still be around in 20 years. My neighbors $24K new car probably won't be around in 20 years. That $3,000 living room set will be long gone. But a $6K lot will still be there (disclaimer: unless it is covered by lava). Find out if there are private roads, and if so, how are they maintained? ARE they maintained? Are there association fees? What are the fees spent on? from the investment wise, are there already power poles in the general area?
And don't just look in the Kau area, there are some great spots in South Kona.
Come visit our little South Kona house, built on land bought nearly 30 years ago. (Another disclaimer: Well, don't literally come visit, I'm not that friendly to strangers.)
You still own it if is covered with lava and your taxes on it are then zilch. Of course, it's a bit difficult to use when it's covered with lava, but wait twenty years after the lava cools and there will probably be folks building on it by then.
One of the downsides I see are the twenty years of property taxes. They aren't that expensive for vacant land, but twenty years of them will add up after awhile. The County sort of sees absent land owners as a cash cow and puts them in a separate category from owners who live on the island and if you live on the land you get big tax breaks.
You are probably paying cash for the lot so you can't take mortgage interest off your taxes.
Also with that timeline, you can't really tell what will be happening in that area in twenty years. I've been watching the Hilo side of the island for about twenty years and while there have been some changes it has been only in some areas of Puna and not across the board. So, as with any real estate transaction, the three most important things are "Location, Location, Location".
However, as a conservation of wealth ploy, buying property may not be a such a bad idea. The dollar is set to tank sometime in the next several years so you'd be buying the property which should hold it's value better than the dollars you used to buy it with.
One of the downsides I see are the twenty years of property taxes. They aren't that expensive for vacant land, but twenty years of them will add up after awhile.
Exactly. And after 20 years much worthless land are still worthless land. All those collapsed subdivisions from the 1970's are visible from space, but hardly discernable... much less salable... on the surface.
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