Question that has been asked before - hopefully with a bit of info and a twist! (Hilo: rent, health insurance)
Big IslandThe Island of Hawaii
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I know this question, or similar questions to this have been done to death around here. I've been on various forums for a bit - not a ton, but I've made my rounds. I know everyone hates when they see this, but I hopefully can make it a bit more interesting than the usual version of this question.
So - after that intro - here is what I have. I am a teacher/artist with 2 Masters degrees. I currently live in Illinois and I am teaching adjunct (wish it was full time lol) at a couple community colleges and working part time at a coffee shop. Between my wife and my 3 jobs a piece, we can live moderately - nothing substantial. But we make do. I have been applying for full time teaching jobs (due to my Masters degrees I am eligible to teach at a college level) pretty much everywhere and have had no luck yet.
I have applied to a couple positions on various islands - I think one on Kawaii, maybe one on BI, might have been one on Maui also, don't remember at this point - all to no luck. So this is where my couple questions come into play.
Does anyone know the mentality behind a college hiring someone from the mainland? I know it will differ from situation to situation, but I was wondering if maybe it is seen as a general negative thing - or something that isn't even really considered due to the distance and travel and all that associated with doing something like that.
Is there even any sort of a higher education market out there right now? Especially for an artist? Again - I know that question will have different answers, but I'm just trying to get some info from those of you that may have a bit more insight into the higher education system.
And lastly - we have toyed around with the idea of just moving out there regardless (we are actually looking into the entire west coast and Hawaii as possibilities). I know most people would frown on the idea of unpreparedly moving out there and hoping that things work. But if that were the case - any advice/words of wisdom? We are young, no children - pretty much just have tons of student loans.
So - did I add enough info and enough of a twist to make this interesting? Hopefully some of you are willing to share!
A friend of mine just got hired as a lecturer at the local college. She stumbled into the job when she was calling a friend at the agricultural part of the college to ask him some questions about growing livestock forage. They needed a lecturer in two weeks and she got hired because they knew her and they needed someone ASAP. She only has the job for one semester, though. Perhaps next semester there might be another lecture for her to do, nobody knows.
From all the college teachers I've talked with (maybe a half dozen) they all get these "hire and fire" each semester type of jobs. If you can get by on such uncertain work, then you could give it a try, but I don't know anything about needs for art teachers.
It is going to be much more expensive to live in Hawaii than Illinois and if you are having a hard time making it there, it might be more difficult here. Can you do art and sell it for extra money?
I've been wondering how folks were going to deal with student loans to pay back an no real jobs available.
That is actually how I got started at the schools I have been teaching at as well. They keep me on though - I usually get 3-4 courses per semester. I'm still waiting for that full time gig!
As for making art - yes, always a possibility for an artist - selling is the harder part, but still possible.
As for paying back student loans? Your guess is as good as mine. I just do what I can. I don't mind sharing numbers either if it helps give a better perspective.
I have about 30,000 in private loans, and another 30 or so in federal loans. I make the minimum payment that keeps me above paying back just interest. I think I'm around 500/month on loan payments. Rent is another 550. Last year, my wife and I, working 3 jobs a piece made about 44k....like I said, we make due, I wouldn't say we are poor...but it is a bit rough and being an adjunct of course there is no benefits like health insurance and whatnot.
But enough about that - we could talk politics of the education and lack of respect for teachers in the general populous all day long - Thanks for your input so far though I hope more good input keeps coming!
Although you have posted in the Big Island section - hopefully NewUHprof will see your post - she'll be able to give some perspective on hiring people from the mainland to teach at college. Given your degrees are Master of Arts and Master of Fine Arts I think you'd be challenged to find a position in Hawaii - they don't seem like they would be in demand here in Hawaii - now if you were into the sciences like marine biology or astronomy - that would be different.
With that said - I'm not sure Hawaii is the best place to put on your radar screen. I'd set some goals and priorties such as:
1) Student Loans. You need a game plan to pay off these loans - and from how you put it, they sound substantial. If the plan is to be a full-time professor - that leads me to....
2) Your employment situation. If you are applying for positions and getting consistently rejected, have you identified what the root cause issue is? You need to make sure you get honest feedback why you aren't getting hired full-time - is it grades? How you interview? Need to punch up the resume? A low demand field? Something else?
I'd really focus on your employment situation and get that stabilized before treking out to Hawaii. What about getting yourself published in Art magazines or a writing a book?
No offense, but you speak in some pretty generic terms there. Aren't those goals of everyone? Out of curiosity, do you even have any of this real world experience in related to these things? If so - I would be glad to hear your knowledge.
I know you didn't mean anything by it, but it's not like I'm some unorganized, no priorities, no life goals kind of guy. Keep in mind - I have 2 Masters degrees. Of course paying off students loans is a goal! But it is not as easy as you seem to suggest. Yes, it's a vicious cycle. Yes, I have plenty in loans, but to simply say "you should figure out how to pay them off" is a pretty obvious statement. Also an extremely hard one to do. As for your second point - again, obviously I am doing all of the things you suggest. I've reworked my resume a bunch of times, gotten as much advice about interviewing as I can, etc. (Although it's not like you can just ask the committee, "why didn't you select me?").
I don't mean to sound confrontational about it - certainly not my goal here. But those statements are very vague and very obvious goals of someone who is clearly a hard worker.
And if you refer back to my original post - you would see that it (the very act of sharing my info, posting on forums, getting feedback, etc.) is all in an effort to do the very things you are stating.
No offense, but you speak in some pretty generic terms there. Aren't those goals of everyone? Out of curiosity, do you even have any of this real world experience in related to these things? If so - I would be glad to hear your knowledge.
I know you didn't mean anything by it, but it's not like I'm some unorganized, no priorities, no life goals kind of guy. Keep in mind - I have 2 Masters degrees. Of course paying off students loans is a goal! But it is not as easy as you seem to suggest. Yes, it's a vicious cycle. Yes, I have plenty in loans, but to simply say "you should figure out how to pay them off" is a pretty obvious statement. Also an extremely hard one to do. As for your second point - again, obviously I am doing all of the things you suggest. I've reworked my resume a bunch of times, gotten as much advice about interviewing as I can, etc. (Although it's not like you can just ask the committee, "why didn't you select me?").
I don't mean to sound confrontational about it - certainly not my goal here. But those statements are very vague and very obvious goals of someone who is clearly a hard worker.
And if you refer back to my original post - you would see that it (the very act of sharing my info, posting on forums, getting feedback, etc.) is all in an effort to do the very things you are stating.
No, those aren't the goals of everyone. Read some threads on this forum. You lose count quickly of the "I dream of moving to Hawaii" where goals and priorities are nonexistant.
Ok -
Let me put it differently then as I didn't see it in your original post. Why even contemplate moving to Hawaii given your current situation of high student loans and difficulty of currently landing a full-time position? This one of the most difficult places in the United States to earn a living and I'm missing the upside to moving to Hawaii given your current situation.
I'd recommend focusing on an area where you have more employment opportunites if you wish to stay in your field. You mentioned West coast - Seattle, SF Bay Area, LA, San Diego have dozens and dozens of higher eduction places to apply - I'd start there - build up your credentials - and then if so inclined, consider Hawaii at that point.
That makes much more sense - and again - meant no disrespect in my response to you. I see your point about not the goals of everyone. I was thinking more along the lines of aren't those the goals of anyone in my situation. Not aren't those the goals of everyone wanting to move to Hawaii. But now that you clarified, I get what you are getting at.
The contemplation of moving there has a few answers. Couple reasons - I am getting sick of the Midwest. I need some change. I am young, married, no children and know that if I am going to move somewhere, now is the time to do so. Also - I really love Hawaii. Great culture, great outdoor activities (which I love), great people. Part of the logic was that if I am going to struggle a bit here. Why not struggle a bit somewhere I would much rather be? So, I guess a part of it is also a bit of escapism, but surely not the sole purpose. And also, I should clarify, I am by no means packed and ready to go or anything. Just searching out options. Trying to gather some info, hence why I'm here. Trying to get a little bit more of insider info about this specific job market I am interested in. No harm in that!
[EDIT] - and to say "I'd start there" in regards to those areas is a given. I have - and continue to do so. And I am just as interested in those areas as Hawaii and will be posting on those forums as well.
Last edited by SX0T; 08-27-2012 at 08:44 PM..
Reason: addition
I know this question, or similar questions to this have been done to death around here. I've been on various forums for a bit - not a ton, but I've made my rounds. I know everyone hates when they see this, but I hopefully can make it a bit more interesting than the usual version of this question.
Since this site has a focus on helping learn about locations, questions about moving here are routine. The "dream" is particularly strong of moving to Hawaii, but perhaps a bit warped, because some folks seem to have a lack of realism when comparing their great "vacation" vs actually "living here". Your post is basically the same as dozens of previous ones, except for your potential job-seeking as an instructor in art.
You state that you are young and without children. That makes your research 100% easier, since you don't have to worry about schools for your children!! The education system in Hawaii is very challenging, due in part to the structure of the administration of public school (such as, one district for the entire state). But you will still need to learn about the DOH/DOE in Hawaii.... since you are a teacher, this same structure is something you will need to deal with when seeking employment. Or, you'll need to jump to private schools.
The arts are NOT supported in the Hawaii state school system. You should know this from the get-go.
Although you have posted in the Big Island section - hopefully NewUHprof will see your post - she'll be able to give some perspective on hiring people from the mainland to teach at college.
Well, I'm in hard sciences at UH Manoa, so my knowledge of the general landscape of CCs and especially art jobs is pretty limited. Here's what I know:
(*) The UH Community Colleges definitely hire instructors with master's degrees in the sciences. Permanent positions are much harder to come by than adjunct ones. But because of our union contract, the pay is decent if you can get the work. They hire lots of our grad students, so the ones I know are already here when they get jobs. Hawaii Pacific (HPU) also hires with master's degrees as adjuncts but not (I think) permanent faculty. I'm less sure about Chaminade and BYU Hawaii.
(*) UH Manoa, UH West Oahu, UH Hilo, and HPU (at least... maybe others) certainly hire mainland candidates. But they hire mostly folks with PhDs, not masters degrees. (There as an opening in the art department in Manoa a year or so ago, and they definitely did a nationwide search... I'm not sure who they hired in the end. But these are pretty competitive jobs.) And the competition for jobs is pretty fierce for permanent positions. My department gets hundreds of applications for each open position. Art may be less, but I'm sure it's still a lot.
(*) Just to throw one other piece of info out there... I have a good friend who moved here over a year ago with a master's in art history and lots of museum-related experience, and she has yet to find work (she definitely would take a CC teaching job if such a thing materialized). So I would say the chances of moving here and finding that very specific work are pretty slim. But again, my knowledge of the niche you're looking for is kind of limited.
Does anyone know the mentality behind a college hiring someone from the mainland? I know it will differ from situation to situation, but I was wondering if maybe it is seen as a general negative thing - or something that isn't even really considered due to the distance and travel and all that associated with doing something like that.
It's a pragmatic thing, as I understand it. If they cannot hire in a specific field from the local pool, they'll look elsewhere. But they're also quite familiar with the common phenomena of someone coming from the mainland to teach, but bailing on life in the islands after a year or two, so they're naturally biased towards finding someone local if they possibly can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SX0T
Is there even any sort of a higher education market out there right now? Especially for an artist? Again - I know that question will have different answers, but I'm just trying to get some info from those of you that may have a bit more insight into the higher education system.
Just like the rest of the country, funding for education is down, funding for the arts is down, and there are a whole lot more people with double Master's degrees in the Arts than there are jobs for them. A friend of mine with exactly those qualifications just announced today, with great relief, that she had finally secured a job as a Customer Service rep for the shipping department at Apple Computer after a very long search. She was the lucky one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SX0T
And lastly - we have toyed around with the idea of just moving out there regardless (we are actually looking into the entire west coast and Hawaii as possibilities). I know most people would frown on the idea of unpreparedly moving out there and hoping that things work. But if that were the case - any advice/words of wisdom? We are young, no children - pretty much just have tons of student loans.
Moving to Hawai'i would not be much different from anywhere else for you, I suspect, except that it would be a lot more expensive and much harder for you to pay the rent. Or to pay those student loans. Personally I wouldn't wait to pay them down, before the rest of your life becomes far more pressing, as life is wont to do.
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