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I'm 25, and my fiancee and I are looking at possibly getting land in Hawaii now, for a retirement home later.
I've been through here and I get Puna is the cheap area for a reason,
1. far from anything
2. virtually no services (at the moment)
3. Bad roads, utilities, etc
4. It would be a pain and unlikely to sell
5. danger of volcano
6. it has/is the 'worst' drug problem area on the Big Island?
However, for us it would be something we would live in 30-40 years from now. So I would imagine the gov would learn to build a road by then... We would plan to build in about 10 years. 100% off grid (or what is possible by that time.) All we are looking for is a place to retire at, live off our solar panels, rain catchers, etc... I'm from austin Tx, so the whole hippy, off-beat, odd, out there mentality that puna seems to give off (from what I read in the forums) is fine by me.
I will admit, I am very new to homebuying etc. What I see is 5K for land in a currently poor, rural, low service area. I am imagining a 40 year down the road good investment.
Before we book our summer trip to go and scout out some areas before paying cash, can someone answer these questions?
My questions
1. Where can I go to learn more about the volcano dangers, liabilities, etc? I feel most worried about buying 2-4 lots of land only to find out in 5 years it melted.
2. can you get insurance for this area?
3. what is VOG? I'm guessing that is volcanic o gas?
4. If you purchase land in this area, does it usually have to be developed on quickly? Is it possible to buy it and just leave it the jungle till I have the cash to do something with it?
5.(T/F) Most of the area isn't well suited to gardening and is mostly rock
6.
A lot of your questions can be answered by searching but I will try to answer some of them based on my own visits and research (one Austinite to another!). Check out punaweb.org's forum for a Puna-specific forum where you can research a lot of these topics and many more.
My questions
1. Where can I go to learn more about the volcano dangers, liabilities, etc? I feel most worried about buying 2-4 lots of land only to find out in 5 years it melted. - You can look at government sites for the volcano activity and active flow information and to get the lava zone maps (the BI has multiple lava zones from 1-9 - 1 being the most likelihood of future lava flow, 9 being the least likely). Puna has everything from zones 1-3 I believe).
2. can you get insurance for this area? - Yes you can but depending on the lava zone, it will be more expensive. There are also flood/tsunami considerations depending on proximity to the shoreline.
3. what is VOG? I'm guessing that is volcanic o gas? Volcanic smog - gases emitted from the volcano that can cause breathing troubles (expecially for people with asthma or other preexisting conditions). The winds ten to blow the vog towards the leeward (West) side of the island but the Puna area can also be affected depending on how the wind is blowing).
4. If you purchase land in this area, does it usually have to be developed on quickly? Is it possible to buy it and just leave it the jungle till I have the cash to do something with it? - This will depend on where you by (does the neighborhood have CC&Rs? these are the rules outlining development requirements such as minimum size, how quickly to build, maximum height, pets/animals allowed, etc). You also want to look at what foliage is on the land and the proximity of neighbor dwellings to avoid any liability concerns (ex: having trees that fall onto a neighbors property and causing damage when you are thousands of miles away)
5.(T/F) Most of the area isn't well suited to gardening and is mostly rock - also varies greatly by specific area but there are lots of ways to overcome - there is a ton of gardening in this area but it may take some work first to get the ground ready. You can also look in to raised beds or greenhouse gardening. Check out punaweb.org's forum on gardening in Puna.
A couple other notes from what I've read - some areas of some neighborhoods are prone to flooding so you need to watch out for that. It is also really hard to tell if a piece of property is flat or has any hidden lava tubes or holes to be concerned about when it is covered in "jungle" to a survey is a good idea. Take everything with a grain of salt, research, visit, spend time in the area you are thinking of buying before you buy, try to get the vibe at different times of day/week, etc.
Hope this helps - maybe we will be Puna neighbors some day!
Puna really isn't "far from anything". There are a whole bunch of people who commute to work in Hilo, and traffic on 130 can be miserable during rush hour. Hawaiian Paradise Park (a large subdivision but not the only one) had 7,000 people in the 2000 census, and is only about 20 minutes to Hilo. Where I live near South Point is an hour and a half to Hilo.
When or if the County has the money to build infrastructure in 10, 20 or 30 years is unknown. More and more people are moving into the Puna area, but that doesn't mean that streets beyond the major highways will ever get improved. Large subdivisions like Hawaiian Paradise Park and Leilani Estates do have paved streets already. However, the cost to install water and wastewater systems is prohibitive.
Don't be fooled into thinking that rural areas of Hawaii will get developed on a timetable similar to the mainland. Rural, undeveloped areas are that way because people like it that way. When you look at land, you have to assume that what you see will be what you get for many years (except that you may get more neighbors).
There are many subdivisions in Puna with varying degrees of availability of services. And some have HOAs. Hopefully Leilaniguy will chime in here, since he lives there.
Buying a couple of lots now and hanging onto them isn't such a bad idea. Check the annual tax rates to see what the carrying costs would be, but it probably won't be too bad. Kinda pick an area you think you may like, although when it comes time to build, if you don't like the exact lot, you'd probably be able to sell and buy a similar lot somewhere else since lot prices should probably be similar to some extent.
The whole area has increased in population in the past several decades and the Keaau-Pahoa road has been widened significantly in that amount of time. Although it's still not big enough to actually carry the load.
Leilani is much more likely to be eaten by lava than Paradise Park. Just due to geography.
If it were me looking for land, I'd check around Hawaiian Acres and Fern Acres (which is different from Fern Forest) since those areas don't have a lot of CC&Rs or road expenses, although that may have changed in the past several decades. They are also at lower elevations so you can grow a lot more of the tropical fruits such as coconuts and papayas, although there's not really much soil, just leaf litter on top of lava rock. Raised bed gardens work great, though, and since you can grow year 'round, you don't need a huge garden. They are also two areas that can be accessed from Volcano Highway (the Belt Highway as it goes from Keaau to Volcano) without having to deal with the Keaau-Pahoa road.
Volcano area might be nice and the lava is usually coming out downhill from there. Very artsy, higher elevation so it's cooler and would be good for growing the mainland type stone fruit trees such as peaches and apples. Volcano is an artsy area and has less crime than much of the Puna area.
If you had enough, picking up a lot in the coastal areas might be nice, but that would have higher annual taxes and a lot of the coast line down there is subject to possible lava inundations.
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I've been through here and I get Puna is the cheap area for a reason,
1. far from anything
basically, the whole island is pretty far from anything. Most of the housing areas in Puna are zoned as huge blocks of nothing but houselots with a low percentage of actual houses built on them. Paradise Park is like 10,000 one acre lots with no breaks for services. A few stores, parks, churches, town centers, etc., would be handy but are not there. Especially not within walking distance, which is partly why the roads are always clogged. There is no alternative to driving to the store.
2. virtually no services (at the moment)
There aren't really likely to be, a lot of the "services" don't exist in town, so they aren't likely to exist out in the rural areas. No mail service to the house, no sewers, no sidewalks, no water service. I don't think those services will show up to the majority of those house lots within the next eighty years.
3. Bad roads, utilities, etc
It's a combination of no roads and poor roads. Most of Puna's problem is a sheer lack of infrastructure. Also poor planning in that you must drive to get basic daily necessities. No options of public transit, bicycles, walking, etc. Many of the areas are getting electricity, that is, if you want it. Gas service is via truck since there's no natural gas in Hawaii so it's all propane. No sewer, water, etc., nor likely to be in the upcoming decades. In some areas there are enterprising folks who will pick up your rubbish for you - for a fee, of course.
4. It would be a pain and unlikely to sell
Actually, selling lots in Puna is pretty easy. You just call the Realtor and tell 'em you wanna sell. You don't have to have even seen the lot, the Realtor doesn't have to see the lot, either. You can buy them without looking, too, if you like but don't be surprised if you find a lava tube or something else on your lot.
5. danger of volcano
Well, it's a pretty well behaved volcano for being a volcano. She doesn't pounce without warning usually. When the lava was eating Kalapana and Kapoho, there was time for folks to move their houses out of the way.
6. it has/is the 'worst' drug problem area on the Big Island?
Well, pretty much at this time, the highest crime and drug problems are probably in Puna. Hard to say how things will be in fifty years, though. Puna has improved a lot in the past twenty, maybe it will be all organized in another thirty to fifty years. Or it could all be eaten by the volcano, too.
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My questions
1. Where can I go to learn more about the volcano dangers, liabilities, etc? I feel most worried about buying 2-4 lots of land only to find out in 5 years it melted.
Even if it has melted, you still own it and the taxes become almost nothing. I have an acre in Royal Gardens, got a great deal on it since it had a river of lava on it at the time we bought it. The previous owner had never seen it, the Realtor had never seen it, I've never seen it, but we own it and the taxes are currently zero since there's no access to it. I figure in ten years or so, maybe more if the volcano keeps going, but in ten years or so we can sell it for quite a bit more than we paid. Or use it as a great camping spot since it's on the other side of the island from us.
2. can you get insurance for this area?
Well, yeah, but why bother? Until you build on it, there's nothing to insure.
3. what is VOG? I'm guessing that is volcanic o gas?
Volcanic smog. It's sulfuric and hard for some folks to breathe, damages some farm crops such as proteas. The volcano was going for years and then the gas changed and got more sulphur in it, dunno why.
4. If you purchase land in this area, does it usually have to be developed on quickly? Is it possible to buy it and just leave it the jungle till I have the cash to do something with it?
There's nothing developed on it now and it's been owned by someone for decades so no, no need to build right away. Still, that's something to check before actually signing the paper. There may be a new development somewhere that requires immediate build, but it's not likely in Puna.
Most of the big Puna "subdivisions" were from the late fifties to the early seventies and all they were was a "developer" buying a big chunk of land, drawing lines on a map to make "parcels" and selling them off to unsuspecting folks. A big dozer ran across the back of the lots and put in galvanized iron pipes or railroad pins for the property markers. The same dozer ran across the front of the lots to make a "road". Added more pins and that was about the extent of "development". I heard most of the lots sold on late night TV ads that ran on the mainland.
In Hawaiian Acres, the lots are usually around 150' wide by 871' long so they call them "spaghetti" lots. If you buy two of them side by side, you can do some paperwork to make them more square. Three lots would be better, then you'd end up with three lots of roughly 400' wide by 300' deep. There'd be two driveways going back alongside the front lot, one driveway along the second lot and the back lot would be the full width. Two lots would be about 300' wide by 435' deep which isn't a bad size, either.
5.(T/F) Most of the area isn't well suited to gardening and is mostly rock
Yup. Gardening with a backhoe doesn't even work, you'd need a D9 with a ripper on it. Stacking rock into a raised bed garden works well. There is also "Hugelkultur" which is gardening on a brush pile. In Puna, make sure it is a DEAD brush pile or your garden will sprout trees.
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First of all, congratulations for thinking about and starting to plan for your retirement now at your age. If you continue to do so, you'll be in good shape in 35 yrs no matter how you invest now. But I'm going to suggest a different consideration for now that should still allow you to move to Hawaii for retirement, but probably with more money in your pocket.
You know, if you were to have bought a lot in Puna 30 years ago, and today you could only sell it for $5,000, would that have been a good investment? Additionally, your dreams and plans for the future will change with time and as your relationship develops.
I'd recommend you invest close to home and in a market you are familiar with. For example, if instead of buying a lot in Hawaii, I'd recommend growing the $5,000 as quickly as you can and buying a duplex in your current town. If you live in one side of the duplex, then you can purchase as an owner-occupant with lower down payment requirements. Then you've leveraged your money, got rental income coming in the door to help pay down the mortgage, and got yourself a place to live as well. Put it on a 15 yr mortgage. In a couple years, move out and rent the second unit. Then buy another.
In just 15 yrs you'll have 2 duplexes with no mortgages generating rental income and great positive cash flow. That income stream can finance your retirement home in Hawaii or wherever else you choose. Or just sell them and use the cash to buy your Puna lot. Which might cost you $10,0000 or 15,000 in 15 years. But you'll have grown your money into something far more substantial and be way ahead of where you'd be just buying the Puna lot today and sitting on it.
And I'm speaking from experience and have done similar things myself and have both rental income and recently purchased a retirement home in Hawaii.
If your heart is set on buying a Puna lot now, then go for it. I just wanted to give you a different approach to consider that I think would move you along and put you in a better position to retire to Hawaii in 35 yrs. but if your heart is set, then go for it.
Thank all of you so much for the information. I can't tell you how much better I feel about this. I ask questions in other forums specific for other areas of the USA, no responses. in 24 hours hawaii people give such good detailed answers is awesome.
I get the advice some of yall are saying about invest where I know. We live and work in China. We are looking to invest another 10K into my hometown where we plan to move in about 5-6 years after my fiancee finishes her PHD. We are looking to get an acre out there for the next 20-30 years (immediate future)
I am a little surprised there is so little faith in the development of Puna. I trust yall, yall live there not I. I think I've gotten too used to China being able to develop anything in 5 years... we honestly don't mind all that.
We can live very happily on
A. Rain water & Grey water
B. Solar panels
C. Our own garden
D. Store bought meat
E. a scooter ride away from the beach
F. Never have to wear a sweater again.
G. Internet. (now I get cable might not ever reach it. But I really do believe in 30 years, that won't be an issue. Satalite, or telepathy, whatever apple ends up stealing from samsung...
So if the roads don't improve, fine by me.
I'm not only looking at those spaghetti plots. If I were to do that I'd probably save an extra year and just buy 3-4 of those and have my own square. I'm ideally looking for those 1-3 acres. I've found some for 13000 on Kaleponi Road that is 3 acres. I admit I haven't researched that much. But I would love having ~1 acre so I wouldn't have to see neighbors. I absolutely love the idea of having a wall of jungle separating the people away from me. (Yes I am aware Jungle = pest.)
Thank you all for the advice.
Last question.
If ya'll had 10K in your pocket and in my shoes, where would you start looking?
Makes sense, WaikikiBoy. Rental income is great since you end up with property that other folks paid for. Of course, you then have to deal with renters.
Back in '87 or so, I bought a lot in Hawaiian Acres for $6,800. Dunno what they're going for now, but I guess it's easy enough to look up. Okay, they're around $15K now. So, it's about doubled in twenty seven years. If I would have taken that money and invested it at 4% - 5%, it would be worth a lot more by now.
When I get spare cash laying around, I usually dump it into Hawaiian Electric. Their dividends are at 4.8% at the moment.
i thought the beach was ~8 miles to the east? near the hawaiian shores no? Did I misread the map?
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