DIY solar in Mountian View; BYOB? More.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by nowhereatoll

thanks Hotzcatz for the reply. I see the advantage for grid tie but I also hear many rumors about the power companies. I like the idea of both, but the solar system independent as backup. I am doing that now in SoCal. Refer is on electric grid and a few high demand items which only get occasional use, but all lighting etc. is on solar. Advantage is less solar/cost up front but still available in the pinch.

Sorry, but I don't get the sense of that. Several of our members here have grid-tie solar installations, and they report that with the excess power generated which feeds back into the grid, offsetting the power obtained from the grid, they typically run a monthly surplus and only get billed the $20 minimum vs the maybe $300 per month it would cost otherwise. [/quote]

I have to see about the permit at the new property, the unfinished house had a permit originally but has since expired. Does anyone know if the Helco does a temporary power tie-in without a current building permit?

Not any more. They used to, but they got scammed so often they stopped doing it. Also keep in mind that the charge for power on a temporary power connection is billed at even a higher rate than the normal exorbitant rate, so you're best served to get your electrical work finaled and switched over to permanent service as quickly as you can.

Looking for a Electrical contractor to hook up the temporary power also; Any leads to a licensed one? I understand Helco demands that.

Yes, Hawai'i County Code requires that electrical work and plumbing be done by licensed tradesmen. You can do your own carpentry, as long as it is done to code standards.

Once you have your feet on the ground, as your neighbors who they recommend. The so-called coconut network can be very helpful, as well as helping you get to know people, which is very important in this area.

Good luck!

[nowhereatoll]

Helco from what I am hearing does not pay you back for your surplus energy, and many power companies around the mainland are threatening to charge customers some sort of fee as they are losing money on solar. We may not be able to put out the initial investment for Proper grid tie in, unless there are incentives and financing from the solar companies and the state. Thanks for the advice on the temporary power situation. Yes the coconut telegraph will be the biggest asset I surmise. By the way we both are looking forward to meeting you, OpenD as you seam very competent and knowledgeable about the area. Dinner on us? Eden Roc is just a skip away.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by nowhereatoll

Helco from what I am hearing does not pay you back for your surplus energy,

They kind of do - Although you'll always pay a minimum connection charge, if you have several cloudy days and are drawing from the grid - but then you get a bunch of sunny days and have surplus energy, the surplus goes against what you took from the grid

[OpenD]

Thanks, I really enjoy it when my comments are useful.

The way the grid-tie net-metering works in Hawai'i is that when you feed surplus electricity into the grid from your solar (or wind, or hydro) system, you get credit for that power to apply against your usage from the grid. In effect it's like running your meter backwards. But if you have a surplus, you don't get paid for it, you just get a credit towards future service. If not used, any surplus credits expire after a year.

Some other states do pay customers for their surplus energy, but those programs are all running into problems. Hawai'i took a more conservative approach, and established a minimum service charge of $20/month to pay for use of the grid, administration, etc. This is all pretty new territory, with utility companies all over the country trying to adapt to a new paradigm. Although unpopular with consumers, it appears that HECO's approach has dodged a bullet that other companies in other states haven't been able to avoid.

[hotzcatz]

Yeah, and once they reset your meter and all your surplus credits disappear, then they charge you for the extra power you used but didn't generate. Our power reset was last month and we had an $85 electric bill instead of the $20 we'd usually have. I'd prepaid the minimum charges for the whole year, so they took the unused prepayments on the minimum charge per month part of the bill and used it to pay for the electricity part of the bill. The whole bill was more than the $85, that's what was left over after they'd taken the remaining amount from a year's worth of minimum service charges. Hmpf!

I'm kinda holding off on paying for awhile to see if the extra electricity we generate will go towards paying off the extra electricity we used after the reset vanished our credits. I want to find out if they bill the electricity separate from the minimum service charge and if the extra power can pay off previously used power. Somehow I doubt it, but one can hope. Also all this rain isn't helping my experiment! There may not be any extra power this month.

Guess we will have to have our reset happen sometime in the summer so it will be during a month when we have excess power. Not sure how to reset the zeroing out of our credits.

There are two types of grid tied systems available in Hawaii. One is like the one we have where your extra is banked and they reset the meter once a year and your credits disappear. Our answer to that will probably be to do a few welding projects or run an electric kiln right before the reset date to use up the extra. We did have extra Christmas lights this year and still had extra left over for them to zero out.

The other type of system is "feed in tariff" although I've not ever heard of anyone actually getting the paperwork in place to actually have it work. In that system, they pay you about half the retail rate for the power you produce. But, like I said, I've never heard of anyone actually getting it to work.

Originally Posted by davephan

Hotzcatz, you were a solar pioneer using solar such a long time ago before the technology was developed to today's technology level. From your perspective, have the improvements in the several decades be drastic or only subtle?

Well, overall photovoltaics have some great improvements, but most of the improvements have been to the accessories, not the panels themselves. Although there are now new breakthroughs in panels although they aren't widely available just yet. There are now flexible panels and I've heard of a painted on panel, but they don't seem to be out for retail sales much yet. There's some nifty roof tile type solar panels, but I've not seen them in use yet.

What has been immensely improved is the controllers. Battery life is significantly improved with a controller keeping it from being over or under charged. The inverters have improved immensely, too. Pure sinewaves, much less juice necessary to keep them going, better control and now the inverters are small enough that you can have 110 volts generated by each panel instead of one big generator.

I still have my original PV panel from the late 70's, early 80's. It still works fine, too. Puts out 12 volts which is what was standard then. Now panels put out 24 or 48 or even higher voltage. The higher the voltage the smaller the wire you can use, so higher voltages are good. The first PV system was one 12 volt panel, it put out maybe 50 watts, I'd have to go check, to be certain, it's been years since I've looked, anyway, one PV panel, one car battery and an assortment of 12V lights. That was pretty much it. Folks would get a few RV 12 volt type appliances if they could find them. Mostly solar systems ran lights, but that was back when phones were hard wired to the wall and TVs only got 5 channels.

PV systems stayed pretty much like that until the last decade and a half or so. Now there's all sorts of advancements happening. I'm not sure what's driving it, probably the internet. Folks can share data so much easier now that all sorts of advancements in just about every field are now possible.