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It's interesting reading through the forums and reading about all the people who move to Hawaii only to have it end in disappointment, and all the (good) advice that people should not move to Hawaii unless you've spent serious time there first. So for those who have the patience to read it, I thought I'd tell why I'm moving to Hawaii after a 5-day trip to look at property, and you can tell me how crazy I am .
1. The beauty. I have always loved nature and have always been mesmerized by scenes of Hawaii, often even before I realized it was Hawaii I was seeing. There is also something about the deep and beautiful greens that affects me. It is one of the most beautiful places on earth. I intend to buy a home with a fair amount of land to walk and enjoy.
I don't just have some image of living on the beach under palm trees, it's the entire island I'm entranced by (minus the black lava fiels which I personally don't find attractive).
2. I like the warm weather and the fact that it is so even, not too extreme in any direction. And I am really tired of the bleak winters with freezing days where I live here on the mainland, so I want to move somewhere else far from where I currently am no matter what. And I don't care for most of the places I could escape the winter on the mainland such as Florida, AZ etc. About the only other place I can see wanting to live on the mainland where it stays warm that I would want to live is California, and that's really no cheaper than Hawaii.
3. People talk about the higher costs but for my situation I'm not seeing it, as we're already in an expensive area. Sure the cost of electric is much higher, but we'll also use much less of it. Here I'm running heat half the year and air conditioning the other half. The cost of food is much higher, but we'll be able to grow so much food in on the property we are buying that will also be offset. Either way we're lucky and don't have to worry about this aspect.
4. I prefer a more relaxed way of life. I was driving in a big city on the main land the other day and it's like watching a mental disease to me, I literally couldn't drive 2 blocks without having cars nearby honking their horn because they were upset someone was not moving fast enough. When I fly and the plane is delayed by 60 minutes, who cares? The slower way of life won't bother me.
5. I am just not that social. The time I care about is with my family and dogs and they are coming with me. I'm sure I'll find some friends here as well. I don't need the crowds or nightlife that some people need.
6. While there are some conveniences and things I will miss, such as tons of restaurants and shopping choices, those are not the important things to me.
7. I am not worried about racism. I am sure there is a little of it, but since I know about it, I will prepare myself for it mentally, so it won't be the end of the world. Frankly I find some of the posts about it a little pathetic, insofar as I don't think most of us white people know what serious racism is. I suspect that by and large I will be treated with respect as long as I treat others with respect.
8. My work is not dependent on where I live and I have enough savings that I can do this, I'm not buying a plane ticket and bringing 5K over with the plan to look for a job and thinking my savings will keep me going until I find one.
9. I'll still be traveling to the mainland for business so won't be completely island bound if I get restless.
So having said all that, I'll be the first to admit I still have some trepidation. It feels extreme picking up and moving to an island, it's almost like we are moving to another country. I will miss those family members who don't come, even if we often go for long periods without seeing each other when on the mainland, now we'll be thousands of miles away.
Right now I live in the midwest and am about 3 hours from every other point in the mainland by flight. Once I'm in Hawaii every trip becomes pretty major.
So I feel excited and scared at the same time. But then I think about walking on my property every day. And I think I'll be in heaven. Even if it doesn't work out I don't see regretting trying it. I'd rather try it and regret it, than live safe and regret never trying it.
Last edited by Green_Mountain; 12-18-2014 at 01:51 AM..
So having said all that, I'll be the first to admit I still have some trepidation. It feels extreme picking up and moving to an island, it's almost like we are moving to another country. I will miss those family members who don't come, even if we often go for long periods without seeing each other when on the mainland, now we'll be thousands of miles away.
Right now I live in the midwest and am about 3 hours from every other point in the mainland by flight. Once I'm in Hawaii every trip becomes pretty major.
Aloha.
I'm not going to work out on your post. There's not much of a question there to bite into, especially since you've already got so many answers.
What I will say is this... you've touched on maybe a dozen things about Hawai'i that are different from the mainland, and they're mostly the things you like. But as I like to say, there are 1,001 things that are different about living in Hawai'i, and a lot of them are in the domain of "things that would never occur to you." And it's mostly those things that people never expected or thought about that take people out from becoming permanent residents.
It's one of the reasons most of us recommend renting a place for 6 months before making any more permanent decisions about where to live, whether to buy, where to buy. Put everything in storage there... wherever there is... bring a couple of suitcases and a box of kitchen essentials that you use daily and book three months on one side of the island, three on another... that should get you well oriented.
What you think now is mostly a fantasy of what Hawai'i will be like. Sorry, it just is. After 6 months you should be ready to start making some informed decisions.
It's interesting reading through the forums and reading about all the people who move to Hawaii only to have it end in disappointment, and all the (good) advice that people should not move to Hawaii unless you've spent serious time there first. So for those who have the patience to read it, I thought I'd tell why I'm moving to Hawaii after a 5-day trip to look at property, and you can tell me how crazy I am .
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Aloha
Green - My lovely bride and I are apparently as crazy as you are. We will be arriving on the BI in about 3 weeks. Buying a house sight-unseen, etc. We are, in fact, ignoring all the good, heart-felt advise. But, life's meant to be an adventure, and we aren't expecting paradise. And if we get there and decide it wasn't a good idea, as far as I know we would be allowed to just move somewhere else. Of course, a lot of people move to Florida when they retire, then, in a few years, move back to where ever for any variety of reasons.
I haven't seen any data on a state-by-state level that measures "turn-over" - people who move in and then in a relatively short time period (a couple of years?) move out. And/or why. I guess that data search will be my next google project.
One thing to consider is the reasons people give for leaving Hawai'i. There are lots of posts on this topic this scattered through the archives... not all are easy to find, although there's one front and center on the Hawai'i forum right now...
Two main themes jump out at me from these posts...
"Something happened that we hadn't planned on... bad allergies, one of us got sick, relative on the mainland got sick, job didn't work out, better job opened up on the mainland..."
"It was OK, fun at first, but we just got worn down by the constant hassle and expense of everything, and the need to work so much harder to try to get ahead... we'll never be able to buy a house if we stay here... "
That's why I recommend a "trial run" first before making a larger commitment. For every "sight unseen, we just jumped" story that works out in the long run, there are probably 5 that do not. Try to keep that in mind.
Moving to Hawaii IS a lot like moving to a foreign country. After all, it was not too long ago that it was the Kingdom of Hawaii and there's still vestiges of the Hawaiian Kingdom here and there. Some of the social programs set up by the monarchy are still in place, the land grants still define a lot of property boundaries, etc. History shapes the present.
It sounds like you've pretty much got a lot of the basics figured out, especially #8 (employment) which is a huge one. However, IMHO, you'll really find a much nicer spot if you rent for six months first. Some folks buy a house and then find out they'd much rather live in a different neighborhood or closer to a different location and once you've bought a house it takes awhile to resell and move. If you buy a house in Hilo, you'll have an entirely different lifestyle than if you were to buy a house in Volcano, etc. And it's pretty hard to know without some time in the saddle.
Although, bringing dogs, it's easier to find a place to live if you buy than if you rent, so that's a reason to buy instead of rent but it also takes about four months before the dogs can arrive so there's some time to look around. As all Real Estate folks know, the three most important things when buying a house are: 1. Location, 2. Location and 3. Location. You can fix everything else.
How to choose your new location? Well, you've picked the island, that's a start. From the sounds of your post, what with not enjoying black lava, you'll probably obviously appreciate one side of the island over the other so that will narrow the area to choose. At the moment, you claim to not be interested in much social interaction, but there so much less social activity on this island compared to some mainland places that you should be careful not to get too remote. Some folks have moved over from the mainland wanting "space and solitude" and then gone screaming back to "civilization" after six months of living rural. Access to supplies is important, access to some social interactivity is important.
Picking the exact weather you want is also part of the location you choose. There are huge differences in the climate even just several miles from one location to another. Elevation makes a big difference, access to trade winds makes a big difference, too. There's things such as views, which is another "location" choice. Then after finding the general area you like, then there may or may not be a house available right at this exact moment. So, there's still the element of chance, but happy hunting! (Which is another reason why a six month rental helps with the house hunting.)
Location: Southernmost tip of the southernmost island in the southernmost state
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One thing I would add on social activities. it's true what others have said about their being a limited numbers of formal, social activities. But what I have found is that for me there has been a huge increase in quality social interactions.
What I mean by this is that you should be prepared to learn the life story of the person pumping gas next to you at the gas station. I made a purchase from a seller on Craigslist, I ended up talking story with the seller for hours and I now have a standing invitation to stop by for a beer anytime. This sort of situation tends to be the norm rather than the exception.
If you are accustomed to the superficial interactions you generally have with others on the mainland, depending on your personality and willingness to engage, you may be in for a pleasant surprise here.
I haven't seen any data on a state-by-state level that measures "turn-over" - people who move in and then in a relatively short time period (a couple of years?) move out. And/or why. I guess that data search will be my next google project.
Good luck and Mahalo!
I haven't seen any data either, but I have met a lot of people here who have left. So, speaking from people's personal experiences, the main reasons are:
1. health. Unfortunately I and a lot of my friends are getting older, and being close to good health care becomes very important. While Kaiser gives us good basic care here, for many things we have to fly over to Honolulu. And many of the specialists fly over here only once a week, so it is hard to get timely appointments. I have friends with heart problems, and they finally just had to leave after living here for many years. Living in a rural part of the Big Island, our closest hospital is 20 miles away, and the ER is staffed by a nurse. Another issue is we're seeing more people experiencing breathing problems due to the daily dose of vog. Some parts of the island are much worse than others.
2. work. If you can bring work with you, then you will be okay. Just hope that job never ends! There just aren't many good paying jobs here, especially in the rural areas.
3. missing family. The kids and grandkids aren't going to come visit as often as you would wish. Doing a weekly Skype just isn't the same as being there. We go back to Colorado every summer to see the kids and grandkids (and do some road trips), but for many of our friends that isn't enough.
OP, you had a great post and you seem to have really thought this out well, especially your number 8. Hopefully you will consider the suggestions here that you "try out" several different parts of the island to see what fits you. Stay long enough in one place that you get the feel of what it would be to live there; especially the basics such as running to the store to pick up something you forgot during the last shopping trip to town (how rural do you want to be?). Good luck with your plans!
Aloha
Green - My lovely bride and I are apparently as crazy as you are. We will be arriving on the BI in about 3 weeks. Buying a house sight-unseen, etc. We are, in fact, ignoring all the good, heart-felt advise. But, life's meant to be an adventure, and we aren't expecting paradise. And if we get there and decide it wasn't a good idea, as far as I know we would be allowed to just move somewhere else. Of course, a lot of people move to Florida when they retire, then, in a few years, move back to where ever for any variety of reasons.
I haven't seen any data on a state-by-state level that measures "turn-over" - people who move in and then in a relatively short time period (a couple of years?) move out. And/or why. I guess that data search will be my next google project.
Good luck and Mahalo!
Everybody gotta be somewhere. And many people made that decision and made it stick. Many also don't. Some people find it wonderful for a time and then go. Some people like me stepped on the island in 1971 and knew we were "home." Hawaii is still the home of my heart, though circumstances keep me up on the mainland again for awhile. But I was there 30 years and have been back 50+ times since I moved to Phoenix.
Be respectful. Eat the food. Bring food. No make stink eye about food that you don't like. Step back before commenting on things that are different, or saying "back where I'm from, we..." Don't compare. Especially out loud. Be nice to people. Breathe. Wait. Patience is a virtue. "The nail that sticks up is the one that gets pounded down." Most locals are real sweethearts. They have an innate intelligence, especially about people and nature. Pidgin (creole English) doesn't mean someone isn't as smart as you. They are prolly smarter...
"Good, heartfelt advice" comes from decades of experience. Don't be smug about ignoring it. No one wants to "harsh your mellow..." but we don't want to waste time and energy on someone who didn't process this thoroughly and then winds up being a huge drain on an already delicate ecosystem. (By ecosystem I mean nature, infrastructure, people, govt system, etc etc. )
One last thing - buy a round trip ticket with an open return date. Stick it in a safe place. There are thousands of homeless people in Hawaii. Some of whom just came on a lark, thinking, "Hey, I can do this! How bad can it be? What's a little extra cost for food, housing, transportation, necessities, etc.? I'm tough. We're good to go." And - well, they now live in a crappy tent underneath an overpass and shower in public bathrooms. So... HAVE A PLAN B. That's all....
Oh - and don't buy a house in Pahoa this week.... ! Just sayin'
8. My work is not dependent on where I live and I have enough savings that I can do this, I'm not buying a plane ticket and bringing 5K over with the plan to look for a job and thinking my savings will keep me going until I find one.
9. I'll still be traveling to the mainland for business so won't be completely island bound if I get restless.
So having said all that, I'll be the first to admit I still have some trepidation. It feels extreme picking up and moving to an island, it's almost like we are moving to another country. I will miss those family members who don't come, even if we often go for long periods without seeing each other when on the mainland, now we'll be thousands of miles away.
Right now I live in the midwest and am about 3 hours from every other point in the mainland by flight. Once I'm in Hawaii every trip becomes pretty major.
So I feel excited and scared at the same time. But then I think about walking on my property every day. And I think I'll be in heaven. Even if it doesn't work out I don't see regretting trying it. I'd rather try it and regret it, than live safe and regret never trying it.
Speaking as one who has a job that is international - and I can live wherever I want - I did the mainland commute from Oahu for two decades. That's why I'm a 3-million miler and the darling of several airlines. It's not all that easy - so keep that in mind. When I started out, we didn't have TSA. I would literally park at the airport and run across the tarmac to jump on the plane. No biggie. NOW - two hours in advance, 6 hours to the mainland, an hour to get your bags, another half hour to get a car or transportation handled. You have a full day of just transiting. If you go to SE Asia, it's an 8 hour flight just to Japan. 24 hours from door to door if you go to Singapore or Australia.
The good news is, you can hop a plane to one of the neighbor islands for a day and work there. I was based for 2 years on the BI and then for 28 years on Oahu. I worked on all the islands, though, and never ever felt the rock fever you hear about. The people and the islands are just too fascinating and wonderful for me to feel that.
I agree with your last statement. Life is too short to regret the things we don't try but really have a longing to do. So, read my post above this and remember the advice you get on this forum. The people on CD-Hawaii are really quite wonderful and give really good advice.
As far as social life and friends, if you stay open and friendly, it won't take you long to find a whole group of friends. That's what's been the hardest for me in Arizona. There's a lot to love about AZ. And I'm in the middle of the 6th largest city in the US. But it was easier to make friends and hang out in Hawaii. I was immediately welcomed by neighbors and co-workers when I moved to Kealakekua in 1971. The family events are amazing. People are very friendly. You also have one hidden benefit that many don't realize... coming from the Midwest makes you more likely to succeed in Hawaii. The midwestern sensibilities that come naturally to you are a great complement to the Hawaii sensibility. So you may find, like I did, that Hawaii really is the home of your heart.
I just got back from there. All my kids are there and most of my friends. For me a 'business trip' to Hawaii is really going home. At some point I'll get a place on a neighbor island and retire there. For now, I gotta stay in the desert and keep on keepin' on.
Go for it! If I could, I would do it in a heartbeat. Family who visit you will also love it, and when you do not have visiting family, invite friends, they also will love and appreciate the opportunity to experience the beautiful Islands.
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