Flood study affecting too many people

[YurtGirl]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

Is the insurance required if the property doesn't have a mortgage on it? Does FEMA require the insurance even if the property is paid for? Usually, if a property doesn't carry a mortgage from a financial institution then insurance is optional. If FEMA does require the insurance, then it does seem a lot like extortion. There should be some sort of way to opt out of the coverage if you don't want to pay for the insurance.

Is the insurance required for vacant lots?

I'm thinking this is an extension of the insurance companies getting their claws into the health insurance racket. Obama care wasn't originally about insurance, but about healthcare. Then the insurance companies got involved and it got whacko. All we need is health care facilities, not insurance policies. This seems like insurance being invasive again. As "free" adults living in a "free" country, we should be able to choose our own levels of acceptable risk.

If I want to find out the "benchmarks" for the "base flood elevations" for a specific property, then I need to go find Public Works? Has some one figured out basic building requirements yet to meet their new rules?

I've got a vacant lot up near Volcano and I'd been thinking of building on it, but if they're gonna get whacko, then maybe not. Usually you're working with yurts, aren't you YurtGirl, but they still need a foundation. What sort of foundations have they found acceptable in a flood zone? Can we use the basic post and pier to get the structure above their "base flood elevations"?

Hotzcatz,

I don't believe insurance is required unless you have a mortgage and a structure that is tied to the mortgage (i.e., vacant land does not require flood insurance). But yes, it's my understanding that if ever a disaster comes, the owner wouldn't be able to be assisted by Federal disaster relief unless they pay the premiums.

I would NOT accept the benchmarks given by the Department of Public Works - we had some issues with that. That is, I would ask them to give the benchmarks they're going by, but in hiring the surveyor to perform the elevation certification, I would specifically ask them to determine their own benchmarks, otherwise, it is not serving much of a purpose because it is not completely independent information, and that's pretty much what the elevation cert should provide - independent evidence of actual elevation of a house site.

We figured out a few of the foundation and building requirements, through much trial and error, because county was incredibly NOT forthcoming about what the shakedown would be... First they said it had to be elevated 4', fine, we did that. Then they said 6'. Ok, did that. Then 8'. The height majorly changed the shear and footing requirements, but ok, we did it. THEN, they said no, that the foundation and shear walls needed to be hollow tile walls, 8' high, and shear walls not just at corners but in the mid spans of the perimeter as well... Essentially adding easily $40k or more, which, if we had known that to begin with, we wouldn't have wasted months and redrafting time and money... That's part of the frustration. Just zero concern from the 'all powerful' about the financial fallout to people as they're trying to enforce something without having done the work to know - It really seemed they were just totally winging it and trying to avoid liability in the meantime, regardless of the cost to the people caught in the middle.

So what I took from it at that point was that in flood zones, you have to have the first horizontal beams/girders of the floor system above the base flood elevation, and not only raise it via post and pier, but hollow tile, sub grade footings, etc. But now DeMarco is fired (I MEAN, cough, RETIRED), and the whole tune changed, so now I don't even know...

We don't only work with yurts, sometimes a project will include other structures - but we don't take a project on unless a yurt is central to the plan. We just don't have room in the schedule to take on projects that aren't yurt related.

[YurtGirl]

"Is the County requiring homeowners to get these flood insurance policies so the County can get FEMA money?" Hotzcatz

Well... not quite... County is outside of the actual insurance enforcement game. That's on the banks and mortgage lenders. But in order to be eligible for FEMA assistance, county either had to accept the FEMA flood map revisions, or do their own flood study and mapping. They opted for the latter. Once it's accepted and finalized in about 2 years (the estimate given by Frank to me), then County Building Department would have to enforce the codes relating to flood zones in the newly changed areas. Instead of waiting for the acceptance of the maps though, Frank decided to jump the gun and start enforcing it approximately 3 years before the estimated acceptance time.

Hotzcatz, where is your property located approximately?

Grow925 - "between the lines, it says, to me: in order to get federal kala, we must act like we are doing what they want..."

Yes... but really, the fallout is real and unavoidable to anyone in a flood zone who wants to follow the laws.

Our clients were up mauka of Kurtistown, up Huina. I was baffled that they'd try to claim that area as a flood zone. Even as far up as Royal Hawaiian Estates... My advice? Don't assume you're in the clear. Call in your TMK and make sure - not to planning and zoning, but specifically asking Public Works to reference the new maps and check, get it in writing better yet...

[hotzcatz]

One of my properties is in Royal Hawaiian Estates - the lots that are above and behind Atkasuka Gardens. I wrote back to Public Works and they replied that my specific property is in "Zone X, outside the 500-year floodplain" so it will be unaffected by the proposed changes. Yay for me, but it still sound like trouble for the folks in the zone of proposed changes. It's at the upper end of RHE and towards the highway side of the subdivision, I don't know if other portions would be affected or not.

When I wrote, I'd also asked about construction methods, referencing standard post-and-pier construction, they said that if it was in the flood zone it would need "anchored footings" to keep the fill material from washing away under the foundations. But they didn't give any further details other than that and I'm outside the flood zone, so it's all good. For me, anyway.

At some point, I may build a small house up there or just sell it with a set of plans or just sell it as it is. I'm just keeping it until after my relatives move over here, they may want to build something, hard for say.

As a draftsperson, I'm always drawing things but so far none of them have been in the flood zone so I've not had to deal with the new flood procedures. Most of the projects that I draw up are on the Waimea side of Hilo, maybe there's no floods there?