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Basically, it seems to me that "HalePlus" is moving the labor time into a manufacturing warehouse instead of having it out on the jobsite. Also funneling more money into HPM for labor instead of materials, which is a good thing since Home DePot and Lowe's are able to buy in greater quantity than HPM and must be putting HPM in a world of hurt as a lumber/hardware supplier. Something similar to HalePlus was tried back in the late '70s, early '80s, but Home DePot and Lowe's weren't around then. Maybe it will work better this time around. The devil is in the details, as always.
When a home owner builds a home, (Hawaii allows homeowners to build everything except the plumbing and electrical have to be done by a licensed contractor) anyway, when a homeowner builds a home, they aren't as burdened by the hourly cost of labor. A contractor, on the other hand, is highly sensitive to the amount of time it takes to install something. I'm not sure what the going rate for a carpenter is around here, but folks with a weedwhacker can get $30 an hour so one would think at least that much if not more.
At the moment, I'm repairing a double hung sash window built in the very early '50s. As usual, the cotton cord holding the sash weights finally rotted through and three of the four sash weights fell off their cords. I'll replace the cotton cord with nylon and then it should last another sixty years or more. I don't think nylon had even been invented yet when this house was built, but the cotton cords lasted approximately 67 years, so nylon should be good for a lot longer than that.
Looking at the construction of the window, some pretty intricate woodworking was used. Framing in the sash weights isn't too bad, the actual window frame is pretty intricate, though. Should someone building a house want double hung sash windows, it would be really expensive for a contractor to build them. (Even if they were able to find a carpenter skilled enough to make them.) Or even if they were able to buy pre-made sash windows, it would still take more time to install them than the much more common 'nail-on' type windows now in use. Since a contractor is paying the expensive skilled labor to install windows, plus the more expensive window option, having a contractor install double hung sash windows is gonna be expensive.
However, if you had a skilled enough homeowner who could make the sash windows, the windows could be made less expensively than pre-manufactured nail ons. The carpenter would need a table saw, router table, fir/pine 2"x3"s or other assorted sizes, glass, glazing points and glazing compound. Hmm, going through all that effort, maybe double hung koa sash windows would be worthwhile. Koa is a much more difficult wood to work with, though.
Location: Southernmost tip of the southernmost island in the southernmost state
982 posts, read 1,163,800 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Home DePot and Lowe's are able to buy in greater quantity than HPM and must be putting HPM in a world of hurt as a lumber/hardware supplier.
We bid drywall for an 8,000 sqf building recently and HPM was by far the cheapest. We also bought doors and windows through them (even though our company has a Lowe's account). My guess is that HPM is doing just fine with contractors.
Location: Southernmost tip of the southernmost island in the southernmost state
982 posts, read 1,163,800 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz
Basically, it seems to me that "HalePlus" is moving the labor time into a manufacturing warehouse instead of having it out on the jobsite. Also funneling more money into HPM for labor instead of materials, which is a good thing since Home DePot and Lowe's are able to buy in greater quantity than HPM and must be putting HPM in a world of hurt as a lumber/hardware supplier. Something similar to HalePlus was tried back in the late '70s, early '80s, but Home DePot and Lowe's weren't around then. Maybe it will work better this time around. The devil is in the details, as always.
When a home owner builds a home, (Hawaii allows homeowners to build everything except the plumbing and electrical have to be done by a licensed contractor) anyway, when a homeowner builds a home, they aren't as burdened by the hourly cost of labor. A contractor, on the other hand, is highly sensitive to the amount of time it takes to install something. I'm not sure what the going rate for a carpenter is around here, but folks with a weedwhacker can get $30 an hour so one would think at least that much if not more.
At the moment, I'm repairing a double hung sash window built in the very early '50s. As usual, the cotton cord holding the sash weights finally rotted through and three of the four sash weights fell off their cords. I'll replace the cotton cord with nylon and then it should last another sixty years or more. I don't think nylon had even been invented yet when this house was built, but the cotton cords lasted approximately 67 years, so nylon should be good for a lot longer than that.
Looking at the construction of the window, some pretty intricate woodworking was used. Framing in the sash weights isn't too bad, the actual window frame is pretty intricate, though. Should someone building a house want double hung sash windows, it would be really expensive for a contractor to build them. (Even if they were able to find a carpenter skilled enough to make them.) Or even if they were able to buy pre-made sash windows, it would still take more time to install them than the much more common 'nail-on' type windows now in use. Since a contractor is paying the expensive skilled labor to install windows, plus the more expensive window option, having a contractor install double hung sash windows is gonna be expensive.
However, if you had a skilled enough homeowner who could make the sash windows, the windows could be made less expensively than pre-manufactured nail ons. The carpenter would need a table saw, router table, fir/pine 2"x3"s or other assorted sizes, glass, glazing points and glazing compound. Hmm, going through all that effort, maybe double hung koa sash windows would be worthwhile. Koa is a much more difficult wood to work with, though.
Hotz, if you're contemplating custom Koa windows you should check out Jadawindows.com.
I did some consultation work for them years ago and they make some pretty impressive windows and are a great group of people to work with.
Hotz, if you're contemplating custom Koa windows you should check out Jadawindows.com.
I did some consultation work for them years ago and they make some pretty impressive windows and are a great group of people to work with.
I'm sure they make lovely windows and I'm really, really, really sure they aren't within our budget. We're just starting a major remodel with a construction budget of less than $5K. We may even keep it below budget, we will see.
One of the nice things about fixing up old Hawaii houses is if we fix them as they were when they were new, it's not all that expensive.
We did get an entire kitchen from a yard sale, so the cabinets/counter are already figured out. And getting them from a yard sale means it will keep the rest of the project under budget. It would have been fun to try to find the chrome trim and fun laminate patterns of the fifties, but now we're doing much more mainstream. Greenish gray granite looking laminate counters, stainless steel sink, oak faced cabinets with a medium stain on them. Very mainstream. Kinda a pity, it would have been fun to do a full on fifties kitchen and maybe even paint the house sunny yellow or happy pink. I think it will end up brown, though. Oh, well, it will be a nice brown and cream trim.
From scraping old paint off, the kitchen was actually pink at one point and the exterior was a sunny yellow at one point. Not sure if it was pink inside when it was yellow outside, but from the layers of paint, it may have been. Both those colors are pretty much some of the first colors.
The kitchen went from pink to sorta a muddy tan, to a darker brown and then gray. Seemed to be getting worse and worse! We may go for a pastel mint green, not sure yet. The exterior of the house went from sunny yellow to tan to gray and it looked like they were thinking of a teal/gray and started spraying it, but gave up after a bit.
Aloha Everyone -
My husband and I are seriously looking into moving back to Hilo (preferably Kaumana area).
We are currently looking for a vacant lot.
I would love to hear from those who used HPM or the other home kit packages.
Any advice?
Mahalo
Judy (aka iuki)
Hi Judy,
I'm not sure how adventurous you folks are but an inexpensive lot with a couple of decked out shipping containers can be had close to Hilo for a song.
My advice is to at least consider using two 40' footer, high boy, double door, single trippers from the mainland (or abroad).
1) Buy them on the mainland cheap, fill them up with all the good stuff you (and your friends) will need once you get here, ship them to Kona side and have a semi deliver them directly to your lot. Sell space in one at a time or ship both together with your own possessions.
2) If I remember right they are 17 TIMES stronger than conventional construction, earth quake proof with either (roller or wheel) system and other natural disaster (theft proof) too.
3) If you are afraid of poo-poo comments from the elites just glue on some T-1-11 siding and nobody will be able to tell the difference from a cheap kit home.
4) If all he!! does break lose again like, oh lets say, 60,000 earthquakes in two months, you can do a little disassembly and actually move them. If you plan in advance it is actually really easy to set up.
5) If you accidentally fall into the greatest ocean front lot on the island, just relocate the entire set up and peddle the lot to the next starry eyed dreamer looking for a spot in PaRaDiSe!
6) If you try them out, and just hate them, well you have got yourself two of the best out building ever made for this environment plus if you decide to sell them, you will get top dollar and all your shipping will have been accomplished at a significant discount.
7) Probably more reasons I cant remember.
Somebody please point out the flaws in this advice.
Ruff
Last edited by lifeisruff; 09-04-2019 at 12:19 AM..
Location: Southernmost tip of the southernmost island in the southernmost state
982 posts, read 1,163,800 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeisruff
Hi Judy,
I'm not sure how adventurous you folks are but an inexpensive lot with a couple of decked out shipping containers can be had close to Hilo for a song.
My advice is to at least consider using two 40' footer, high boy, double door, single trippers from the mainland (or abroad).
1) Buy them on the mainland cheap, fill them up with all the good stuff you (and your friends) will need once you get here, ship them to Kona side and have a semi deliver them directly to your lot. Sell space in one at a time or ship both together with your own possessions.
2) If I remember right they are 17 TIMES stronger than conventional construction, earth quake proof with either (roller or wheel) system and other natural disaster (theft proof) too.
3) If you are afraid of poo-poo comments from the elites just glue on some T1-11 siding and nobody will be able to tell the difference from a cheap kit home.
4) If all he!! does break lose again like, oh lets say, 60,000 earthquakes in two months, you can do a little disassembly and actually move them. If you plan in advance it is actually really easy to set up.
5) If you accidentally fall into the greatest ocean front lot on the island, just relocate the entire set up and peddle the lot to the next starry eyed dreamer looking for a spot in PaRaDiSe!
6) If you try them out, and just hate them, well you have got yourself two of the best out building ever made for this environment plus if you decide to sell them, you will get top dollar and all your shipping will have been accomplished at a significant discount.
7) Probably more reasons I cant remember.
Somebody please point out the flaws in this advice.
Ruff
Our company bought two 1 trip high cube containers here on the big island. They were a good deal cheaper than what we could get them for on the mainland. This was 3 years ago and supply and demand may have changed that, but don't discount pricing containers here too. Remember, more is shipped to Hawai'i than is shipped off of Hawai'i. This leads to really good prices on shipping related items. We can get free pallets all day long here, whereas they are $5-7 each on the mainland.
He quoted last year for 40' double door, regular height (I haz the memory dumbs) $6,500??? and that was local but not really 'a local' price.
oh and a delivery fee of $300 on top of that.
I think I might be able to arrange the shipping and drop off for that price AND there might be enough left over to rough in some of the house systems, I/O kitchen, bath, maybe even ship the water/ septic tanks.
Its worth looking into if you can schedule, purchase and plan.
Last edited by lifeisruff; 09-04-2019 at 12:29 AM..
Somebody please point out the flaws in this advice.
Ruff
It's been the hottest in recorded history summer in Hawaii.
Living in a metal container may have.....flaws
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