Farm dwelling questions, needing draftsman/architect (Waimea: real estate, renters, assessor)

[Echo8]

Hello- We are going to apply to the Building department for an as built farm dwelling. All is by code except we are hoping to get current codes on foundation for a 2/12 sloped ground. If anyone knows a draftsman working with an architect and code links, we are grateful. Navigating the right information route is tough. We have an ag zoned lot and not sure how much revenue we need to generate or how much ag land use is needed to qualify. Thank you!

[hotzcatz]

Current code is 2006 International Residential Code (as amended by Hawaii County) and foundation code changes depending on your seismic and wind conditions specific to your lot.

Depending on when it was built, it may or may not be anywhere near current code.

[TwoByFour]

We are zoned Ag and have a farm dwelling. It is our only habitable dwelling although we have a small barn like building also. We live on Maui but I believe the laws are about the same for the other counties. A farm dwelling on Ag land is allowed to have a covered lanai which won't count against living space and we took advantage of that and added a 400 sq ft lanai on to our 960 sq ft farm dwelling. When we did that we had to file a farm plan for how we intended to use the land, as part of the permit for the lanai project. Part of the requirement of the farm plan was to show how much of the land would be put to an agricultural use. Here on Maui the minimum is 60% of the land must be used for ag. When we filed the farm plan, they did not come out to inspect but said if we ever built a main house they would verify the farm plan. There was no requirement for farm revenue for any of this. If you are going to file for a property tax exemption based on being an agricultural business you will have to show farm revenue. I am not sure how much as we never took that step.

Note that you can have Ag zoned land that is for a conservation purpose, which means you plant native Hawaiian species and you don't have to generate a revenue. You declare this on the farm plan and state the native plants that you will plant. The county should have a list of what they accept as conservation species.

For us, we started to implement our farm plan but then decided that we are happy living in the farm dwelling (which we completely remodeled) and don't need a main house. We will keep the option of a main house for purposes of selling our place one day.

So, I would go to the county planning department and talk to them about the farm plan. Get the forms and find out the requirements, find out if they inspect it. We just hand drew ours, made it neat with legible labels and they accepted that.

My SIL is a draftsperson, used to work with a local builder here on Maui. She is retired but does small jobs. She drew up all our plans. You can PM me if you want.

[harrypritikin]

Aloha Echo 8. I know a draftsman in Waimea but he's expensive: RCS Designs Inc. – Architectual Design and Drafting Assuming the house is on post & pier, your main concern will be the corners. The new code for hurricane requires a 12" wide L shaped footing at each corner, 4' in each direction and 18" deep. 2" wide, 1/8" thick straps need to be embedded into the concrete the full 18" and go up each of 3 studs 36" on each side.

There are two ways to get a tax break on Ag land, Dedication and Non-Dedicated. Here's the link to dedication:
http://www.hawaiipropertytax.com/for...20Handout).pdf

I prefer the non-dedicated method because there is no mandatory 10 year requirement. Call the Real Property Tax Office at (808) 961-8201 and request that they email you the Non-Dedicated Agricultural Use Application. A County assessor will come out to inspect to determine the value attributable to Ag use.

You don't say how much land you have. Because the house and 10,000sq.ft. around the house is is taxed at the regular rate, if you only have one acre, the regular tax might be cheaper. The only way to figure it out is to calculate it both ways. The reason being the value they ascribe to the land depends on the use. Non-Ag use property could be worth $100,000 per acre. But that same acre in coffee would be given a value of only $100 (it might be $500; check with the County). The tax rate is the same, $9.35 per one thousand dollars assessed value. So 5 unused acres could be valued at $500,000. So the tax would be 500X$9.35 or $4,675. But the tax on coffee land at $500/acre is only 2.5X9.35 or $23.38. Only the land used as Ag will get the tax break. If you fence in your entire property you can call it pasture and get the value for pasture (pasture has the lowest value). If you have no fence, only the area with Ag use will get the tax break. So if you have 5 acres, but only 2.5 acres has fruit trees or coffee and the rest is not used for any Ag purpose, you will only get the break on 2.5 acres. Half my property is fenced in forest, but because it's fenced in, it's valued as pasture. The rest of my property is planted in fruit trees from boundary to boundary so it gets valued as orchard. Google Hawaii Real Estate Professor if you want to get my contact information and email me. Mahalo, Harry

[hotzcatz]

Originally Posted by Echo8

Hello- We are going to apply to the Building department for an as built farm dwelling. All is by code except we are hoping to get current codes on foundation for a 2/12 sloped ground. If anyone knows a draftsman working with an architect and code links, we are grateful. Navigating the right information route is tough. We have an ag zoned lot and not sure how much revenue we need to generate or how much ag land use is needed to qualify. Thank you!

Getting an 'as built' is a lot harder than it used to be, however, trying to fix what you think they are going to want fixed before you apply can add a lot to the effort. Instead of trying to fix various things to what you think they are going to want, since the building is already existing, just apply for the permit with the way the building is now built and wait to see what they want different. Otherwise you can spend an eternity jumping down various rabbit holes.


AFAIK, if it is built in Hawaii County prior to 1915 with documentation prior to 1930, it doesn't need a building permit at all. If it's old enough, that could save some paperwork. Of course, a bank still won't loan on it if it has no permit, they don't care about grandfathered things.

[harrypritikin]

My loan officer friend, Joanne Stubenberg, at Central Pacific Bank here in Kona says they have no problem loaning on homes built before permits were being issued. She says they do consider them to be "grandfathered in". Just so it appraises at or above the purchase price they will loan on it.

[hotzcatz]

Ah, we should have chatted with your loan officer friend at Central Pacific instead of asking a different bank. They didn't want to have anything to do with a 1910 house because it had no permit. Another lender didn't wanna touch it because it lacked hallways and closets. Finally found a cash buyer and that solved all the difficulties with fussy lenders.

[Echo8]

Aloha, all of your replies have been SO VERY helpful to us! Thank you so much for all of that. We will tailor a plan based on the information. We do have a main house, and the 2018 as built farm dwelling. I'm thinking the fenced in option is really great if that can apply to us to save on taxes, as ours are currently $962 a month. We don't mind growing micro greens or propagating the few tilapia we have in the current makeshift pond. One question we had was if the farm dwelling could be rented and there be a clause in there that the renters would help on the farm and I wonder if that is all necessary?

[hotzcatz]

If I fence in residential zoned property and mow it with sheep, can I get ag tax rates on it, do you think?

[SharpMind]

interesting thread about farms