Birmingham to get a Dome? (Bessemer, Vincent: apartment, hotels, home)

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

http://www.bhamweekly.com/category/odds-ends/sports-leisure/

I read that article, and noticed a big glaring error in it. Birmingham's metro population is larger than that of New Orleans. Further, the average household income in Birmingham is roughly $10,000 higher than that of New Orleans as well. So if New Orleans could build and support a dome, then Birmingham surely could do so.

Again, a lot of naysayers out there. But given the sheer number of events that could immediately be booked into a dome and given the number of events that we have a realistic shot of booking into the dome, I've yet to see any rational argument against it.

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

I read that article, and noticed a big glaring error in it. Birmingham's metro population is larger than that of New Orleans. Further, the average household income in Birmingham is roughly $10,000 higher than that of New Orleans as well. So if New Orleans could build and support a dome, then Birmingham surely could do so.

Again, a lot of naysayers out there. But given the sheer number of events that could immediately be booked into a dome and given the number of events that we have a realistic shot of booking into the dome, I've yet to see any rational argument against it.

I tend towards disagreement with the dome, but am undecided overall.

the first 2 sources I found:
New Orleans and Birmingham have remarkably similar metro pop estimates
(Population Estimates (http://www.census.gov/popest/metro.html - broken link))
and New Orleans metro has a higher personal income estimate according to one source
(BEA: News Release: Personal Income for Metropolitan Areas, 2008)
and very similar according to this:
United States - Data Sets - American FactFinder

Given income and population fluctuate and can be measured different ways and such, lets just say they're similar.

As for tourism: you can't compare. New Orleans still surely has many times more visitors than Birmingham. Of course, one might also state that means there's a pent up demand for the area the dome would fulfill... touche.
New Orleans wasn't the only comparison, as well.
I've seen many a stadium, etc... built in different cities I've lived.
They have all been deemed a net loss and left the city with a debt more than the gain.
Imagine with all that debt the other things that could be done in Birmingham. Imagine if instead of building domes and giving tax breaks to giant corporations, we made it cheaper and easier for all businesses and such to thrive. For improved education, safety, and transportation. For downtown revival of already existing buildings. For simple everyday city functions and tackling crime, poverty, drug addiction, health, etc... To better the population instead of improvement despite it.

Perhaps I'm biased, since I could give a flying crap about sports. I just see that surrounding cities have so much more already going for it when talking of major conferences and such. Perhaps its that I never understood that if it were such an obvious money-maker, why does the government have to foot the bill. I'm kind of a pinko in many ways, but this doesn't seem to fit the bill of government improving the population's life enough for me.

[cpg35223]

https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/refmaterials/hudmedinc/hudincomeresults.jsp?STATE=AL&choice=msa&CITY=birm ingham&FormsButton1=Search (broken link)

Birmingham: $60,900
New Orleans: $59,800


https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/refmaterials/hudmedinc/hudincomeresults.jsp?STATE=LA&choice=msa&CITY=New+ Orleans&FormsButton1=Search (broken link)

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/refmaterials/hudmedinc/hudincomeresults.jsp?STATE=AL&choice=msa&CITY=birm ingham&FormsButton1=Search (broken link)

Birmingham: $60,900
New Orleans: $59,800


https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/refmaterials/hudmedinc/hudincomeresults.jsp?STATE=LA&choice=msa&CITY=New+ Orleans&FormsButton1=Search (broken link)

ok. $1,100 (<2%) seems pretty close to me, and confirm the other 2 sources (census, BEA) that they are similar in terms of metro per capita income. The BEA says NOLA has $4,000 more than Bham metro.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by bluebeard

ok. $1,100 (<2%) seems pretty close to me, and confirm the other 2 sources (census, BEA) that they are similar in terms of metro per capita income. The BEA says NOLA has $4,000 more than Bham metro.

Well a lot of that has to do with how the data is compiled, so let's call the two roughly even (Which actually speaks a lot to the Birmingham area's metro growth over the past two decades). Nevertheless, it proves my point nicely. If a city with the size and average household income like New Orleans can support a Superdome, then Birmingham can support a domed stadium. The economics are there. What's more, Birmingham has lost out on a number of major events due to the lack of a quality venue, such as the NCAA quarter finals in basketball. However, even with an aging stadium such as Legion Field, it has been able to pull in World Cup qualifiers.

As I stated before, there are any number of sporting events that already come to Birmingham with an antiquated facility such as Legion Field. It only stands to reason that more events can be recruited.

What's more, given that downtown office occupancy has been on the rise for a decade (Close to 93% at the end of 2007) and a loft district that continues to grow, I'm not sure how dumping the surplus into downtown development will grow matters. This growth is already taking place without a huge capital investment on the part of the city.

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

As I stated before, there are any number of sporting events that already come to Birmingham with an antiquated facility such as Legion Field. It only stands to reason that more events can be recruited.

What's more, given that downtown office occupancy has been on the rise for a decade (Close to 93% at the end of 2007) and a loft district that continues to grow, I'm not sure how dumping the surplus into downtown development will grow matters. This growth is already taking place without a huge capital investment on the part of the city.

Comparing simply population and income won't exactly convince me. And listing possibilities won't either. Again, if it so clearly can be supported, why can more private backers be brought in to share the financial risk.
It's true putting money into downtown development into actual buildings wasn't the best suggestion. However, there are other areas than downtown, and other way of supporting small businesses that our city doesn't currently do. Small business owners have a lot to complain about in the city. The state, county, and city currently put a lot of emphases on essentially paying for malls and factories to come to them, yet don't listen adequately to small businesses on many concerns they have. And the other investments in education, safety, community development, transportation, and the such would seem to be a better way to put a giant chunk of borrowed money.
However, I realize that it seems that these things are not to be. The way politics works is you do what's on the table, or you do nothing at all. This is pretty much the only reason for my ambivalence.

[Neverbetter]

Originally Posted by A&M Bulldawg

The dome is too too small for the Magic City Classic!!!!!!!!!!! The Magic City Classic grows every year.

Dear A & M,
You know, I am sure, that he wasn't talking about the Magic City Classic?? He was talking about Birmingham, the Magic City. Well, we aren't that at all anymore, either. All the tax base has moved out of Birmingham and most, out of the county.

[Neverbetter]

Originally Posted by leadingzero

What do any bham residents think about it? Would it bring in tourism and money? I'm a resident of the bham metro area and think that a pro team would be great for the city. Am I alone?

I don't think you are alone, at all. The problem is that those of us at a 'certain' age, remember Birmingham when we drove downtown to shop, watch movies,eat, etc. We have watched our city go from the best place to shop as well as eat and entertain to a place I don't like driving at night. I am not old and not at all fearful but you take your life in your hands unless you are going to an organized location with lit parking. There are still empty, vandalized buildings that we hear ever couple of years are going to be taken over for new stores or lofts (and the loft thing is certainly happening) or other wonderful things and still they are empty. I remember years ago,in the 70's, going to Atl. and it was not safe to leave the Peachtree Plaza. Now it's a fantastic place. Let's clean up our city first. Sound good? As for the pro team? Did that, done that.. didn't work then..

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by Neverbetter

I don't think you are alone, at all. The problem is that those of us at a 'certain' age, remember Birmingham when we drove downtown to shop, watch movies,eat, etc. We have watched our city go from the best place to shop as well as eat and entertain to a place I don't like driving at night. I am not old and not at all fearful but you take your life in your hands unless you are going to an organized location with lit parking. There are still empty, vandalized buildings that we hear ever couple of years are going to be taken over for new stores or lofts (and the loft thing is certainly happening) or other wonderful things and still they are empty. I remember years ago,in the 70's, going to Atl. and it was not safe to leave the Peachtree Plaza. Now it's a fantastic place. Let's clean up our city first. Sound good? As for the pro team? Did that, done that.. didn't work then..

Well, let me remind you that downtown office occupancy is now back above 92% (That's year-end 2007. I'm sure the recession has affected that number somewhat). What's more, the loft commmunity has continued to grow, and the excess inventory built a few years back is currently being absorbed. Suddenly there are restaurants and bars downtown that are thriving.

So, again, if the negative posters would actually drive downtown and see how the area is changing, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. It's a virtually crime free part of town (A lot safer than the Galleria parking deck, I might add), that seems to be going through a bit of a Renaissance. When the economy gets back on its feet, I believe that trend will continue to accelerate.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by Neverbetter

Dear A & M,
You know, I am sure, that he wasn't talking about the Magic City Classic?? He was talking about Birmingham, the Magic City. Well, we aren't that at all anymore, either. All the tax base has moved out of Birmingham and most, out of the county.

If that's the case, why is downtown office occupancy at levels not seen for decades? Why is the downtown working population at an all-time high? I really get tired of the kind of baseless, kneejerk junk that you're spouting. The nadir for Birmingham was the late 70s and the early 80s. It's a different kind of town, one where a lot of people are making the downtown area work nicely thanks.