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I found the interchange informative. Why resort to being combative? or suggest that people from outside of Birmingham shouldn't be able to make valid opinions or only COMMENT on issues mentioned only in his home threads?? is this attitude indicative of many residents of Birmingham, Alabama? If so that's pretty petty and narrow! I didn't read in the Terms of Usage of city-data that posters who only live in the city they are commenting on are qualified or permitted to provide opinions, or facts. I don't know what a home thread really is, or must be. Lots of people live or have lived in lots of cities, or travel and spend time in various cities - at least some of us have, or still do. I deal with people in the medical community in Birmingham extremely often, but I shouldn't comment on what I see and experience for fear of retribution here on City-Data.com? That's small-townish it seems to me.
And you seem and probably are trollish to me. Nonetheless Peter's constant promotion of Louisville while bashing Birmingham is pathetic and reeks of insecurity. Why just be proud of both cities achievements and move on? Or is that a violation of city data's terms of usage?
Why are Birmingham boosters still in denial? I am asking for one constructive post from a local explaining what the city can do to compete.
Maybe because the "boosters" don't care to spend hours arguing on a message board, while that time would be better spent making the city better and more competitive.
In the end of the day the only thing that would make the area more competitive is economic development and jobs, jobs, jobs.
He does throw around "billions" as if it's nothing. Just in this thread he went from $8 billion to $11 billion. The only basis for the $8billion figure was a speech from the mayor about a year ago to city chamber members.
But rest easy B'hamians. The man asked for stats on other cities, which I decided to do so for his city. Via extensive Google searches, all I was able to come up with was from the past 3 years with a total of $6 billion in Louisville.
First on the latest residential permit data: https://www.bizjournals.com/louisvil...ts-up-in.html; and not really strong in their central urban county, Jefferson... home-permits-are-up-so-far-this-year-in-jefferson.html. Hardly a population boom going on in L'ville, as the whole region is pulling just b/n 2500-3000 residential units annually (anywhere from 5200-7000 ppl per year in the whole metro).
As of September 1, 2016, the
estimated population of the
Louisville HMA is 1.29 million, an
increase of 7,850, or 0.6 percent,
annually since 2010. Nearly 47 percent
of the population growth in the HMA
since 2010 has been from net inmigration,
which has averaged 3,700
people annually. From 2003 to 2008,
during a time of economic expansion,
population grew moderately,
increasing by an average of 13,050,
or 1.1 percent, annually (U.S. Census
Bureau population estimates as of
July 1). Net in-migration accounted
for 59 percent of population growth
during this period, averaging 7,700
people annually.
Getting back to the $6 billion I found via Google: $2.4 is a huge government road project (2 Ohio River bridges), $1 billion UPS expansion, $1.3 in a Ford truck plant expansion, and $1.3 billion downtown, which includes a respectable (but not overwhelming) number of hotel rooms (1500) representing a large government enabled expansion of the city's convention city and adjoining new hotel. There is also a fair amount of construction, much government funded, at the UofL. Compared to other cities of similar size however, there does not appear to be any great surge in private construction vis-a-vis a boomtown. From Insider Louisville (link below):
In a presentation to the Rotary Club on Thursday, Rebecca Matheny, executive director of the Louisville Downtown Partnership, highlighted the $1.161 billion in public and private investments driving current growth downtown. The overall figure includes $964.29 million in public developments underway; much of that, of course, is the Ohio River Bridges Project.
And there is $197.13 million in private development projects downtown, including Steve Poe’s Aloft Hotel, Brown-Forman’s Old Forester Distillery on Whiskey Row, and the Angel’s Envy distillery on East Main Street.
Matheny also cited nearly $789 million in announced projects — she was careful to clarify that meant these are serious projects — on the horizon downtown. Those include the renovation of the Kentucky International Convention Center, the Omni Louisville, Kindred’s Fourth Street expansion, and the Starks Building renovation.
Yes, there's a lot of money being spent in Louisville, but (like most other cities) it's being done over multiple years and nothing that points to a privately-funded boomtown. https://insiderlouisville.com/busine...ands-prospect/
So you have to go to permits issued year-to-year for a fair comparison. I'll turn it back over to the B'hamians here as this is their thread. You can compare your permit data with what I've found above. That should help settle this little kerfuffle.
Even though Birmingham is MUCH smaller in size and metro?
Seems like a biased view to me but you certainly think that.
1 billion in Birmingham development vs 11 Billion Louisville. Louisville is TEN times greater in development. Anyone care to dig up stats for Richmond or New Orleans or any city Birmingham can dream it still competes?
I’m from South Florida, I often visit DFW because of family, and a few months ago I was out in The Bay Area. When I compared those to cities like New Orleans, Louisville and Richmond, it’s like night and day dude. When it comes to Metro Areas, It makes the focal cities more expansive; I personally don’t find the Metro areas of Lousiville, New Orleans, or Richmond that alluring. One thing I like about Birmingham, is that it has a decent metro area, one that I’d personally put above Louisville, NO, and Richmond.
Louisville’s Metro Area is larger population wise, but by comparison Birmingham’s Metro feels more larger and active.
He does throw around "billions" as if it's nothing. Just in this thread he went from $8 billion to $11 billion. The only basis for the $8billion figure was a speech from the mayor about a year ago to city chamber members.
But rest easy B'hamians. The man asked for stats on other cities, which I decided to do so for his city. Via extensive Google searches, all I was able to come up with was from the past 3 years with a total of $6 billion in Louisville.
First on the latest residential permit data: https://www.bizjournals.com/louisvil...ts-up-in.html; and not really strong in their central urban county, Jefferson... home-permits-are-up-so-far-this-year-in-jefferson.html. Hardly a population boom going on in L'ville, as the whole region is pulling just b/n 2500-3000 residential units annually (anywhere from 5200-7000 ppl per year in the whole metro).
As of September 1, 2016, the
estimated population of the
Louisville HMA is 1.29 million, an
increase of 7,850, or 0.6 percent,
annually since 2010. Nearly 47 percent
of the population growth in the HMA
since 2010 has been from net inmigration,
which has averaged 3,700
people annually. From 2003 to 2008,
during a time of economic expansion,
population grew moderately,
increasing by an average of 13,050,
or 1.1 percent, annually (U.S. Census
Bureau population estimates as of
July 1). Net in-migration accounted
for 59 percent of population growth
during this period, averaging 7,700
people annually.
Getting back to the $6 billion I found via Google: $2.4 is a huge government road project (2 Ohio River bridges), $1 billion UPS expansion, $1.3 in a Ford truck plant expansion, and $1.3 billion downtown, which includes a respectable (but not overwhelming) number of hotel rooms (1500) representing a large government enabled expansion of the city's convention city and adjoining new hotel. There is also a fair amount of construction, much government funded, at the UofL. Compared to other cities of similar size however, there does not appear to be any great surge in private construction vis-a-vis a boomtown. From Insider Louisville (link below):
In a presentation to the Rotary Club on Thursday, Rebecca Matheny, executive director of the Louisville Downtown Partnership, highlighted the $1.161 billion in public and private investments driving current growth downtown. The overall figure includes $964.29 million in public developments underway; much of that, of course, is the Ohio River Bridges Project.
And there is $197.13 million in private development projects downtown, including Steve Poe’s Aloft Hotel, Brown-Forman’s Old Forester Distillery on Whiskey Row, and the Angel’s Envy distillery on East Main Street.
Matheny also cited nearly $789 million in announced projects — she was careful to clarify that meant these are serious projects — on the horizon downtown. Those include the renovation of the Kentucky International Convention Center, the Omni Louisville, Kindred’s Fourth Street expansion, and the Starks Building renovation.
Yes, there's a lot of money being spent in Louisville, but (like most other cities) it's being done over multiple years and nothing that points to a privately-funded boomtown. https://insiderlouisville.com/busine...ands-prospect/
So you have to go to permits issued year-to-year for a fair comparison. I'll turn it back over to the B'hamians here as this is their thread. You can compare your permit data with what I've found above. That should help settle this little kerfuffle.
SHINE why do you think you know more about Louisville than it's mayor??....The mayor has reiterated the 11 billion figure OVER AND OVER. It's simply a fact. I put 8 billion because I did confirm that 3 billion of the 11 billion was roads (mainly, one of the biggest new bridges in the US). This is since 2014. Meanwhile, Birmingham has had a paltry 1 billion compared to this since 2015. That's not comparable and you know it.
The list does not include developments under 50 million and there are dozens! Look at the project watch site alone to see that. And yes, private developers are pouring in.
The list CLEARLY shows under 3billion is roads.
This doesn't include 200 million soccer stadium district just announced, and to start construction/site clearance this winter, among several other recent announcements.
No SHine stx, you cannot "google" to prove me wrong.
Facts are facts, and here they are again. Every time a new hotel breaks ground, the mayor reiterates the facts:
So, please address the above postings. Tell me, oh shine stx, how you know more that the Mayor of Louisville about the city he runs (and has won awards for doing so)???
And can we get back to the thread topic? Why isn't Birmingham seeing development that New Orelans is seeing, for example. Let's take Louisville out of the question but we all know it is smoking the Ham with 11 billion, and that's FACT that shinestx cannot twist. This isn't "Peter1948" tossing around numbers. This is straight from the MAYOR. He reiterates it over and over, so it's not an error. If you think he is lying, why don't you call him? Shinestx, why does Louisville's success bother you so much? Is Louisville booming like Nasvhille? Not at all. But is Louisville a boomtown compared to Birmingham? By almost any metric, the answer is yes, unequivocally. Please read the 2017 state of the city in detail and you will see why.
I am not being "mean to Birmingham," I'd only like to know why it is behind? We have several Birmingham boosters here stating it is not last in major SE cities but every fact I have posted shows it is. We have a Birmingham poster who stated he "drove through" and felt Louisville and Birmingham had "equal feels." That comment is JUST AS ASININE as if I claimed Louisville and Nashville felt similar. Yes, there are comparisons, but Birmingham is to Louisville as Louisville is to Nashville....the gap among these three cities is widening greatly! I reference Louisville because I obviously like it and know it better than any city....but let's substitute Louisville for X SE city and the Ham is getting smoked any way you slice it!
If Louisville riles people up, lets replace it with Raleigh....or Knoxville or Greenville. Don't shoot the messenger. Birmingham is getting blown out and the margin continues to spread. The OP asks if Birmingham is behind...the answer is yes. I am glad there are several reasonable posters here.
Last edited by Peter1948; 12-04-2017 at 06:37 AM..
What is a Lane Report? So even a local booster "business" blog touts that mythical figure of $11 billion w/o giving more than a third of that amount in a "partial list". I'd say this only supports my point that the figure is not documented. And yes, we understand that a huge amount of government pork is floating whatever that figure actually is.
I marvel at how you slip your L'ville boosterism into just about every thread I stumble on. That's why I think it's only fair to let someone from B'Ham respond as this is their forum. Please don't reply without a complete list.
What is a Lane Report? So even a local booster "business" blog touts that mythical figure of $11 billion w/o giving more than a third of that amount in a "partial list". I'd say this only supports my point that the figure is not documented. And yes, we understand that a huge amount of government pork is floating whatever that figure actually is.
I marvel at how you slip your L'ville boosterism into just about every thread I stumble on. That's why I think it's only fair to let someone from B'Ham respond as this is their forum. Please don't reply without a complete list.
Shine, the list made VERY CLEAR it only listed projects over 50 million. What you don't understand since you have never been to Louisville are there are 1- 50 million dollar infill and historic rehab projects occurring in EVERY neighborhood, on multiple blocks. Drive around Germantown, for example, and you will find flip after flip (evidenced by dumpsters in the street) in one of America's hottest neighborhoods.
The list would literally be pages long! And many of the biggest projects have already completed, but just look at all those announced lately not even in that 11 billion figure. Heck, I count half a billion in announcements in the last month.
It's literally NO CONTEST. Just in the last TWO WEEKS, Louisville has announced it will break ground on a 200 M soccer stadium district, dual 15 story 100 M hotels (to bring tourists that would never visit the Ham), and another 167 M hospital expansion. Just in two weeks bud, and frankly, it's been a "slower time" lately. There are TWENTY FIVE hotels under construction. Not 1500 rooms as you tried to downplay it.
Now, can we compare the Ham to a city it can compete with in 2018? Maybe Memphis development wise? I'd really like to know why Birmingham is underperforming. To me, it is a very interesting city that personally I find much more aesthetically appealing than Nashville, for example.
Last edited by Peter1948; 12-04-2017 at 07:10 AM..
I started to pick your list apart, then realized I did that several months ago. So I decided to go back to my original point here: you (or your mayor or Lane) have not produced a complete itemized list that adds up to $8B. You have made a claim about B'ham vis-a-vis Louisville, and you have not proved your point.
But since you bring up Memphis, look what I found... http://www.commercialappeal.com/stor...-not/91988682/ This appears to be a snapshot with $7.1 billion in real projects as part of $8.8 on the table. The author even accounts for the "future" (TBD/TBA) projects. This is certainly no less than what you've thus proffered for Louisville. Compared to the partial Louisville list with lots of TBA/TBD projects, Memphis' $8.8B beats $8B. So one could legitimately ask why is Louisville underperforming?
And yes, I agree. Birmingham is an attractive city, even in its older industrial parts. I find it more attractive and interesting of a place than Louisville. And why do you assume I've never been there despite my previous comments that I go there regularly? In fact, I was there two weeks ago. Truthfully it looked rather drab, like most Midwestern cities this time of year. Stayed downtown at DT Marriott. So I got an up close view of the awkward looking new Omni rising next door. But it does add much needed height to a rather disappointing skyline. Lots of asphalt parking one block off the main drag, even compared to B'ham. Shame!
As I've pointed out about the incomplete information you've provided about L'ville, I think it's only fair to let someone from B'ham produce more than you've linked here about Magic City.
I started to pick your list apart, then realized I did that several months ago. So I decided to go back to my original point here: you (or your mayor or Lane) have not produced a complete itemized list that adds up to $8B. You have made a claim about B'ham vis-a-vis Louisville, and you have not proved your point.
But since you bring up Memphis, look what I found... http://www.commercialappeal.com/stor...-not/91988682/ This appears to be a snapshot with $7.1 billion in real projects as part of $8.8 on the table. The author even accounts for the "future" (TBD/TBA) projects. This is certainly no less than what you've thus proffered for Louisville. Compared to the partial Louisville list with lots of TBA/TBD projects, Memphis' $8.8B beats $8B. So one could legitimately ask why is Louisville underperforming?
And yes, I agree. Birmingham is an attractive city, even in its older industrial parts. I find it more attractive and interesting of a place than Louisville. And why do you assume I've never been there despite my previous comments that I go there regularly? In fact, I was there two weeks ago. Truthfully it looked rather drab, like most Midwestern cities this time of year. Stayed downtown at DT Marriott. So I got an up close view of the awkward looking new Omni rising next door. But it does add much needed height to a rather disappointing skyline. Lots of asphalt parking one block off the main drag, even compared to B'ham. Shame!
As I've pointed out about the incomplete information you've provided about L'ville, I think it's only fair to let someone from B'ham produce more than you've linked here about Magic City.
I'm simply not going to spend 100 hours to dig up 1000's of projects, and rehabs, many of which occur block by block in historic shotguns or old warehouses. I know I am right as I posted factual data from factual sources. You are just reaching from left field, googling stuff to try to disprove me.
Birmingham is behind. And good for Memphis , but where is their list? Why don't you hold them to the same standard? I don't even see any of the big developments listed, and I flat guarantee there's a ton of roads in there.
And you didn't stay at the Marriot DT Louisville as it's under renovation. Nice try trying to gain credibility. Louisville is booming with pedestrian and tourists now, and you see it as a threat to your beloved Nashville, so you try to downplay it.
Can we please see a list of major development for Birmingham? I posted Birmingham Crane Watch and it is NOT IMPRESSIVE.
I'm simply not going to spend 100 hours to dig up 1000's of projects, and rehabs, many of which occur block by block in historic shotguns or old warehouses. I know I am right as I posted factual data from factual sources. You are just reaching from left field, googling stuff to try to disprove me.
Says the king of "googling stuff".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948
Birmingham is behind. And good for Memphis , but where is their list? Why don't you hold them to the same standard? I don't even see any of the big developments listed, and I flat guarantee there's a ton of roads in there.
Apparently in your zeal to disprove me (you haven't) you missed my comment that I was applying your standard in my comparison b/n Memphis and Louisville. Basically a crane watch to crane watch comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948
And you didn't stay at the Marriot DT Louisville as it's under renovation. Nice try trying to gain credibility. Louisville is booming with pedestrian and tourists now, and you see it as a threat to your beloved Nashville, so you try to downplay it.
Dude, I know where I stayed. It's open. Yes, construction going on, but not closed. Even their website is booking rooms NOW.
You're the one obsessed with Nashville. You keep bringing it up in your L'ville boosting posts. And it's apparent you know there's no comparison. Others would agree. Even one of the links posted above refers to Nashville "once a peer city to Louisville."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948
Can we please see a list of major development for Birmingham? I posted Birmingham Crane Watch and it is NOT IMPRESSIVE.
What I've kept on asking, but you keep getting in the way. Now, give it a rest as you're really repeating yourself more than usual.
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