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Whatever man!
Again, I know what I see with my own two eyes! And, I also know people personally who have moved into Birmingham from over the mountain. It's happening slowly. I'll admit that.
Whetstone has a good point. Change is constant and isn't always the workings of one man, the Mayor. When I grew up in Birmingham Southside was still a hot spot, it changed from 5 Points to Lakeview and now more to Avondale. I'm not sure there's a "growth" as much as a migration.
Yes maybe more young professionals are moving back into town and maybe that will help the overall feel of the city making it more vibrant and alive feeling, but you still HAVE to keep jobs there. Professional white collar jobs.
And of course the schools. Has Woodfin done anything to help the schools? He offered an incentive for people to bring their kids in to the school system but is that really changing it? That will take decades too.
Lastly, Whetstone's best point is sometimes we act like other cities are standing still. I've said many times that you have to compare acceleration, not just movement. Other cities are, and have been, accelerating faster for longer putting Birmingham more and more behind.
So if Birmingham is "unrecognizable" in 10 years, how much more so will Nashville, Tampa, Austin, etc. be in 10 years? Birmingham will have more appeal than it did, but less appeal comparatively, making it overall, dimmer and dimmer.
I think the best thing Birmingham has going for it is cost of living will drive some away from bigger "further along" cities. When they find Birmingham, they might not find great jobs, but they will find a decent downtown with parks etc. So it's not all bad.
But, like I've said before, it seems like most on this forum turn a blind eye to how fast other cities are accelerating and treat Birmingham's perceived crawl as a "renaissance", "boom", or whatever. It's just not.
We also need to look at important metrics too. Things like unemployment are good but only tell part of the story. The recently released study on best performing cities ranks Birmingham 132/200.
I say this all the time though, ranking lists are fun, but MOST lists are garbage, and ALL lists have some garbage in them.
Whetstone has a good point. Change is constant and isn't always the workings of one man, the Mayor. When I grew up in Birmingham Southside was still a hot spot, it changed from 5 Points to Lakeview and now more to Avondale. I'm not sure there's a "growth" as much as a migration.
Yes maybe more young professionals are moving back into town and maybe that will help the overall feel of the city making it more vibrant and alive feeling, but you still HAVE to keep jobs there. Professional white collar jobs.
And of course the schools. Has Woodfin done anything to help the schools? He offered an incentive for people to bring their kids in to the school system but is that really changing it? That will take decades too.
Lastly, Whetstone's best point is sometimes we act like other cities are standing still. I've said many times that you have to compare acceleration, not just movement. Other cities are, and have been, accelerating faster for longer putting Birmingham more and more behind.
So if Birmingham is "unrecognizable" in 10 years, how much more so will Nashville, Tampa, Austin, etc. be in 10 years? Birmingham will have more appeal than it did, but less appeal comparatively, making it overall, dimmer and dimmer.
I think the best thing Birmingham has going for it is cost of living will drive some away from bigger "further along" cities. When they find Birmingham, they might not find great jobs, but they will find a decent downtown with parks etc. So it's not all bad.
But, like I've said before, it seems like most on this forum turn a blind eye to how fast other cities are accelerating and treat Birmingham's perceived crawl as a "renaissance", "boom", or whatever. It's just not.
Yes, he does have a point, but I never said Birmingham was booming like oh say a Nashville or whatever. I'm simply talking about progress and momentum. Birmingham is night and day better than just 10 years ago. Of course there are negatives that need to be addressed, but progress is happening. I said people are moving back into the city, and he started talking about families. Everyone knows there has to be a top notch school system to draw families with kids. I simply said people are moving back into the city, even from over the mountain. I know this to be fact!
Look! 15 years ago, nobody was moving to Birmingham, at least not in significant numbers. People were leaving in droves! Now, even though there is still some outward migration, it has slowed dramatically. And, people are moving in now at a pretty good rate, when that was not the case before. Are we doing numbers like Nashville? Hell no! Has Birmingham progressed? Absolutely!
Agreed above, but some of the well-intentioned Bham boosters and prolific posters like CPG, Chris Goldschmidt, who was all over this site for a long while is even gone...he's a MB resident. he hasnt moved to Bham...I don't think anybody in Mountain Brook is moving to Bham.
It's about FAMILIES and education, not about "whuts happnin" like several posters here seem to think ! It's about culture, safety, EDUCATION aand family foundational values.
Posting c rap but also important goings on in very important, but no way as important as stressing the basic, foundational necessity of a stable FAMILY life.
Until then, don't post about physical structures, venues, or otherwise baying at the moon.
Talk about what's going on to reward the nuclear family, and get young people educated....careers... eradicating generational illegitimate births....vocational training.....any damn career.
Speak English, stop making excuses, get training...the library doesn't charge admission...
FAMILY and foundational values will make Birmingham great like no other city! It's there for the taking and HAS BEEN THERE for decades....
Posting c rap about what's going on viz infrastructure etc in Bham is meaningless ! TELL us what's going on POSITIVE in FAMILY LIFE , education on the local level !
Don't tell us what "companies" are moving to Bham or the "high tech" startups...tell me not just about "startups" but about re-vamping families and foundational values. Don't tell us about single white males or single black people MOVING to Bham...hell...they have, no doubt, better education than the locals LOL
Let's get real about what really really matters!......hint: it ain't the newest development or the MAYOR's CONTEST !!!!!!!!
Grow the hell up, and acknowledge EXACTLY how Birmingham succeeds and goes forward.
Birmingham doesn't need to get slammed by Nashville , Charlotte, Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando...but it IS. Hell, in a few short years Huntsville will slam Birmingham IF it allows itself to get slammed........but Birmingham allowed Atlanta to slam it decades earlier for NO good reason.
Birmingham doesn't need, or shouldn't BE behind Nashville TN, Jacksonville FL, Tampa Bay FL or Charlotte NC, but it IS.....not to mention Atlanta, which was on the same footing years back...the SAME footing.
I'm FOR Birmingham, but Birmingham isn't FOR itself in re family, education, and culture.
Last edited by WW Whetstone; 03-04-2021 at 05:29 PM..
Whetstone, I don't disagree with you at all that family values are important.... But, you're not recommending what should change. A city can't just change it's family values stance and make families flood in. It has to change its schools... But how do you do that when the students are all the same, coming from the same low-expectation home?
I think the ONLY thing you can do is make the place nicer (parks, apts, restaurants, hang outs, etc) and hopefully that will attract businesses. When that happens MAYBE you'll attract some families to move on in.
How is Woodfin supposed to create stronger and better families? How is he supposed to make dads stick around and be dads and moms stop having kids with random dudes? I agree, that's the root problem and Birmingham has alot of those.. But how is Woodfin responsible for that?
Whetstone, I don't disagree with you at all that family values are important.... But, you're not recommending what should change. A city can't just change it's family values stance and make families flood in. It has to change its schools... But how do you do that when the students are all the same, coming from the same low-expectation home?
I think the ONLY thing you can do is make the place nicer (parks, apts, restaurants, hang outs, etc) and hopefully that will attract businesses. When that happens MAYBE you'll attract some families to move on in.
How is Woodfin supposed to create stronger and better families? How is he supposed to make dads stick around and be dads and moms stop having kids with random dudes? I agree, that's the root problem and Birmingham has alot of those.. But how is Woodfin responsible for that?
Agreed to your point(s). Let's be frank. Mr Woodfin can't fix stupidity but he, along with others stop glossing over many of this lack of foundational values and family values. He and others are not necessarily to blame, but UNDERSTAND THIS: this "low-expectation home" (as you put it) has been allowed to flourish in Birmingham for too many decades... I understand but here's the solution:
So-called "leaders" don't TALK and CONDEMN, LOUDLY ENOUGH the lack of education, lack of responsibility anti-social behavior, LACK of morals, criminality in some cases, and sub-cultural life.
First, above anything, citizens must admit loudly that some things are UNACCEPTABLE, and HAMMER that home - yes, it's called "shaming" and hurting your "feelings" in order for a greater good, the good of the family and extended family
That goes for any mayor running for office....speak loudly, condemn loudly and OFTEN. Bad-mouth women who elect to have children out of wedlock. Talk negatively about illegitimacy. Encourage marriage by speaking about the rewards, about the positive outcomes rather than sheepishly accepting and avoiding the discussion of morality - call it out 24/7
Church leaders don't do that enough either. Grand parents don't do that loudly enough. Preaching on Sundays doesn't work - obviously so given the number of churches in Bham that are active on Sundays.
FIRE stupid, incompetent teachers and administrators in the public school system. Enforce continuing education requirements - forget tenure. Eliminate layered administrative posts. Increase evaluation methodologies for every teacher.
STOP social promotions in schools - flunk them if remediation has failed. Enforce dress codes (that especially goes for teachers and prinicipals) Require parental meetings. If they don't show up, flunk their children), let them fail and require them to enroll in a trade school immediately.
Ban disrupters in school on the first offense. Institute a contract of behavior with their parents with a formal review process for redress and due process.
Reinstate more trade and technical schools, with apprentice programs in any kind of local business. Require welfare recipients to work, even in community service, any service, including in libraries to waste removal.
Reinstate library class periods. Increase the school day(s) to year round.
Stop making EXCUSES and accepting behaviors,...... verbally, loudly condemn evil, nasty, inappropriate behavior and culture.
NO, Mr. Woodfin is NOT responsible, he's a damn politician. Families are responsible.
Maybe Mr. Woodfin could take a page out of James Brown's book, and yell to his supporters "Say it LOUD, I'm BLACK and I'm PROUD".
Unfortunately, I think that too will fall on deaf ears for another 30 years or so. Elvis has left the building and the train has left the station.
Am I hopeful? not really because " les jeux sont faits"
I think the ONLY thing you can do is make the place nicer (parks, apts, restaurants, hang outs, etc) and hopefully that will attract businesses. When that happens MAYBE you'll attract some families to move on in.
I wish it were as easy as that, but IMHO that's bazzAkward. That smacks of "build it they will come"
Strong families aren't attracted by apartments, restaurants and hang-outs or even parks. Birmingham is now built upon such thin veneer.
Strong families at their core are Mothers, Fathers, and children who live together as a unit. Mothers are interested in safety, security, cleanliness, education and opportunity. Strong fathers are attracted to those things as well as stability, discipline, success, and self-worth in providing and securing all of those things.
Everything else is cosmetic it seems to me....fake, or contemptable at the worst.
Strong families are attracted to strong cities that share their values, NOT someone else's values, lifestyle and ethics - even in their choice of leaders and type of government.
That's why some strong families choose to live in suburbs and exurbs in the first place, and avoid 'City Birmingham' in its entirety.
When a family considers to make a move, one of the first things they consider is whether the town or city's character and values coincide or compliment their own. They seldom bet on the come that a town or city is on the upswing towards their own values....most strong families are risk adverse in these important matters...they don't gamble very much in this regard, and why should they? that's antithetical.
Interesting conversation. I was just curious on how one makes a city more "diverse" assuming that it is their goal? It seems that Birmingham being 73% black is a result of who left and who stayed and the reasons behind leaving and staying the conscious decisions to do so as opposed to the city(government) making intentional decisions with this being the desired result?
I have seen Mayor Woodfin speak in person and on TV and he seems to be doing the things a Mayor would do to ATTEMPT to make a city more "diverse" at least in terms of the development of the City's core and some of the projects that would draw people to the city while raising its national profile. It may not result in people moving to the city immediately.. but improving the quality of life does eventually lead to job creation and possibly the settling of businesses and potentially industries/companies in the community which over time could encourage residents to settle in the City. Obviously things like schools and crime must be addressed as they are often barriers in many cities. This often seems to be the strategy of most cities that are trying to attract in "diverse" populations often described in these terms as younger, middle and upper income singles/families....whether they are white or non white may or may not be of interest but more so the tax dollars and buying power these new residents bring with them. Most of the Cities discussed on here Detroit, Memphis, Atlanta et al.. seem to be attempting to follow a similar path in one form or another.
The inverse of this often comes in the form of affordable housing development where there is an assumption that providing more affordable housing in less affordable areas not only provides some form of "diversity" in income and often with that race. This often occurs through incentives via inclusionary zoning, tax credits or other proffers by the municipality often in more affluent areas of the city or in one of the suburbs where this is a goal. I have often seen this more explicitly pursued under the banner of "workforce housing" in expensive areas where they often workers in the service industry who commute from the city to suburbs at a high cost. By allowing them to move to the suburbs into lower cost housing they provide much need employees for service sector businesses while providing jobs for lower income workers in the city while achieving "diversity" however they define it. This may not be an issue in the Birmingham MSA, but my main point was above with the City of Birmingham attempting to become more diverse and if in fact they are attempting to do that in one form or another
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