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Old 05-31-2008, 11:49 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,323 posts, read 20,438,757 times
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Marvin Hagler was a ferocious, supremely conditioned fighter. The man was from Massachusetts and had a work ethic and determination like no other. He fought some serious wars with great Philadelphia fighters like Willie "The Worm" Monroe, Bennie Briscoe, Bobby Watts, and Eugene Hart, and even lost a couple of these wars. He beat some incredible fighter like Hitman Hearns, Mustafa Hamsho, John "The Beast" Mugabi, Briscoe, Monroe, Sugar Ray Seales. The man could be the picture of intense ferocity in the ring.

Yet, I was frankly shocked at the way he fought Antuofermo in the first fight, and especially the way he fought Roberto Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard. It was possible to get under his skin, give him hesitation, even make him appeared apprehensive and afraid. I think he was afraid when he fought Hearns, and in that fight, he had to either fighter or get knocked out. It was the ultimate survival fight for him and fortunately he prevailed. But against Duran, a fighter who was 5 months way from being crucified by Hearns, he was apprehensive and overly respectful. He didn't attack Duran and seemed to fear him. It was the first time that I realize that Marvin Hagler had a yellow streak when it came to fighting fighters he considered greater then himself. Hagler had a problem fighting legends, perhaps feeling unworthy or not as worthy.

His fight with Sugar Ray Leonard was telling. Before deciding to come out of retirement and fighter Hagler, Leonard and his wife invited Hagler and his wife out to dinner. There the both of them were, all dress in diamonds and fur, looking like two overdressed pimps. During that dinner, Leonard sized up Hagler, saw that he was a bit star-struck by him, affording Leonard more respect than he deserved. Leonard then agreed to fight Hagler, a fight many thought was suicide. Leonard knew better. During their fight, Leonard's interpretation of Hagler was correct. Hagler followed him around the around, reluctant to attack. He respected Leonard far too much and seemed to feel that Leonard could hurt him. He feared the legend that was Leonard just like he feared the legend that was Duran.

When the decision was announced for Leonard, Hagler was very upset, not at Leonard, but at himself. Once again, he had shown that he possesses a great flaw, and it is for this reason that Hagler left the country and retreated to Italy. So ashamed of himself and feel far from worthy of the adulation he received from those who respected him here in the states. Shame on Leonard too. He didn't offer a rematch.
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Old 06-02-2008, 05:15 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 11,946,603 times
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As someone who grew up in the "City of Champions" that produced both Marvelous Marvin and Rocky Marciano and watched every Hagler fight, many at ringside before he won his belt.....I think your analysis is a crock.

Hagler feared no man, there was no "yellow streak" He chose to retire out of the limelight of the US and unlike so many of his peers never attempted an ill advised comeback in the ring. One of the top middleweights of all time....

When the officials robbed Hagler in the Leonard match it wasn't Hagler that was guilty of giving too much respect to Leonard, it was the officals that scored the bout as if Leonard was the champ and not Hagler.
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Old 06-03-2008, 12:04 AM
 
5,776 posts, read 14,439,329 times
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Wow, here's a name I haven't heard in a while. Hagler was one of the greats, and, from everything I've heard, a classy guy in his private life. I have to agree with BlueD that it was better for him not to drag his career out past his prime. At best, he would have become another aging athlete clinging to the hope of a comeback while being the last to know it's long past time to hang 'em up. At worst, he could have ended up like Muhammad Ali.

As for the fact that Leonard didn't offer him a rematch, there's a good reason for this. Leonard had suffered a detached retina in an earlier fight. In the fight with Hagler, he realized that he was too concerned about keeping his face from taking a hard hit, so as to avoid another eye injury, to be able to really relax into the flow and fight properly. He realized he would never be able to fight at his best with this worry hampering him, so he decided that retirement was the best option. Another fighter smart enough to know the right time to bow out, I'd say.
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Nevada
2,009 posts, read 6,173,607 times
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Default Fear

The reason Leonard didnt rematch Hagler was because he may not have even won the 1st fight. He ran all night and threw combos for the first 30 seconds of the round and last 30 seconds. If it was an eye problem then why did leonard go on to fight a bunch of fights after Hagler? Fought Donny La Londe, Duran , Terry Norris and Camacho. He feared Hagler.





Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
Wow, here's a name I haven't heard in a while. Hagler was one of the greats, and, from everything I've heard, a classy guy in his private life. I have to agree with BlueD that it was better for him not to drag his career out past his prime. At best, he would have become another aging athlete clinging to the hope of a comeback while being the last to know it's long past time to hang 'em up. At worst, he could have ended up like Muhammad Ali.

As for the fact that Leonard didn't offer him a rematch, there's a good reason for this. Leonard had suffered a detached retina in an earlier fight. In the fight with Hagler, he realized that he was too concerned about keeping his face from taking a hard hit, so as to avoid another eye injury, to be able to really relax into the flow and fight properly. He realized he would never be able to fight at his best with this worry hampering him, so he decided that retirement was the best option. Another fighter smart enough to know the right time to bow out, I'd say.
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Louisiana and Pennsylvania
2,840 posts, read 5,627,895 times
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Hagler was one of the toughest fighters ever to step in the ring. He knew when to hang up his gloves and did it gracefully. Fighters like this are few and far between these days.
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Old 06-07-2008, 12:51 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,323 posts, read 20,438,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
As someone who grew up in the "City of Champions" that produced both Marvelous Marvin and Rocky Marciano and watched every Hagler fight, many at ringside before he won his belt.....I think your analysis is a crock.

Hagler feared no man, there was no "yellow streak" He chose to retire out of the limelight of the US and unlike so many of his peers never attempted an ill advised comeback in the ring. One of the top middleweights of all time....

When the officials robbed Hagler in the Leonard match it wasn't Hagler that was guilty of giving too much respect to Leonard, it was the officals that scored the bout as if Leonard was the champ and not Hagler.
How do you know he feared no man? Simply because you grew up in the same city and watched his fights doesn't mean that he didn't have this flaw as I suggested. Anyway, it's just a theory that I'm researching about various fighters for a book I'm writing. Thanks for the perspective.

Certainly to win the belt from the champion, a contender must "take" the title, but Hagler was outboxed in that fight despite being the pursuer. You can bet he gave Leonard too much respect but was it worth losing his title? Why didn't Hagler cut off the ring on Leonard and attack him rather than pursuing him in a manner that allowed Leonard to escape and utilize the ring? Why didn't Hagler attack Leonard, even when he thought that perhaps the fight was slipping away. Surely, an experienced fighter such as Hagler had a feel for the fight, whether ot not he was ahead. He fought Leonard as if simply pursuing him was all he had to do to keep his title. Severe miscalculation or uncharacteristic apprehension on Hagler's part? Do you think Leonard would've taken that fight if he knew he was going to fight the same Hagler who fought Hearns? Absolutely not.

When they went out to dinner, Leonard sized up Hagler. He sized him up and sensed apprehension and a bit more respect for Leonard than Leonard expected. He needed to see this in order to quash the notion that Hagler was this unstoppable force. Feeling as though he could beat Hagler, not by exchanging and overpowering him, but by utilizing the the apprehension that Hagler felt in order to dance, stick, and move, taking the final seconds of each round with flurries (an old Ali trick). Watch that fight again, and you will see this. Take a look at Hagler fighting Duran as well and you will also see the apprehension there too.

I don't think Hagler was as fearless as you think. He gave too much respect to fighters he considered legends, greater than himself.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Asheville
7,558 posts, read 6,411,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Positiveone View Post
The reason Leonard didnt rematch Hagler was because he may not have even won the 1st fight. He ran all night and threw combos for the first 30 seconds of the round and last 30 seconds. If it was an eye problem then why did leonard go on to fight a bunch of fights after Hagler? Fought Donny La Londe, Duran , Terry Norris and Camacho. He feared Hagler.

I seem to remember an interview soon after the Hagler Leonard fight and Hagler said "they gave the decision to Leonard so there would be a rematch and I will not play there game and I'm retiring". I'm paraphrasing but that's how I remember it going.
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