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Has the Buffalo Rail line spurred long term development along or near the line? Debating this issue on the Cincinnati board which has a new Trolley going in a loop serving an area of downtown and north. Some new commercial development is being proposed but the long term prospects as to whether these businesses will stay there has to be considered.
Buffalo has had that rail line for decades but I never seem to read anything about its successes or failures. Would be interested in what the local people have to say about it.
No, the Buffalo Metro Rail hasn't spurred development along the rail corridor at all. What development that has taken place along it has occurred independently of the subway. Most of the develpment in Buffalo has occurred in/near/around the traditional residential areas on the West Side and in North Buffalo which is no where near the rail line which runs mostly under Main Street except in downtown.
Unless a city/metro has major traffic problems, massive investment in rail, especially underground rail, is a waste of money. That money is much better spent on infrastructure and services that actually improve the quality of life in city neighborhoods. People are not going to move into a city just to ride rail. They're going to move into a city because neighborhoods are relatively safe and quiet and the schools are decent. Finding great architecture or ambiance nearby is a plus.
If there's existing rail rights-of-way that could be used for transit with modest investment in rail infrastructure, that would make some sense. Keep in mind, though, that building rail from the outer suburbs into the city center can also make those outer suburbs much more desirable, and encourage sprawl rather than contain it.
The rail stopped traffic on a large part of Main St, so stores actually closed. That goes for almost every kind - department, restaurants, etc. When I moved here, there wer 7 department stores ( it was the 1960s) and still 3-4 when the rail started. By 1985? I dont think there were any.
The rail was "supposed" to go to the burbs.None were ever built and towns tore up rail tracks - specifically Tonawanda ( LaSalle Station was to be the start of the line).
I think that had Buffalo kept the trolleys they had into the late 1950s, they'd have done better.... the cost for the rail was insanely outrageous.
I lived in Buffalo when they were discussing building the MetroRail. There were two alternatives: the subway under Main Street and a surface passenger rail line serving most of the city using the old Buffalo Belt Line ROW that the city already owned. Buffalo politicians, of course, had to have a subway because Toronto and NYC had subways.
For those who are unfamiliar with Buffalo's history, contrary to common myth, Buffalo didn't develop from a single, downtown core that grew steadily outward but grew from dispersed development. The pattern of development in the city was the central downtown business/residential area with clusters of residential/commercial/industrial development scattered within the city limits separated from downtown and other areas by suburban-like estates of the well-to-do (originally Johnson Park but eventually Lincoln Parkway) and rural undeveloped land probably used for agriculture. The site of the 1901 Pan American Exhibition, west and north of Delaware Park, for example, was said to have been one of the Rumsey family's cow pastures.
The Buffalo Belt Line RR was a local line built in the 19th century that connected these various businesses and their adjacent commercial/residential areas on the periphery of the city, the best known of which was Black Rock, which had been an independent village until 1854. The Belt Line largely encircled the most of the city with the exception of South Buffalo. In many areas of the city, especially in North Buffalo and on the East Side, it predated development in those areas. Until relatively recently, you could see remnants of it, especially in Black Rock and North Buffalo, with the numerous dark, sinister looking viaducts along abandoned rail lines like the one at Amherst and Tonawanda and the one that used to cover Elmwood Avenue south of Hinman Avenue.
By the 1960s, the Belt Line had been abandoned and the ROW owned by the city. The city could have had a truly usable rail system up and running in a much shorter time span for a fraction of the cost of the MetroRail, and could have easily then pitched to have surface rail extended out to Tonawanda and other suburbs. It was probably the city's biggest missed opportunity since WW II.
The answer to this question has a lot to do with timing. Did the metro rail induce development when it was constructed? Absolutely not, it was a total failure. It was built at a time of massive dis-investment from cities in general, and even worse dis-investment of rust belt cities like Buffalo. It helped kill Main St downtown.
Fast forward to times now. Buffalo is somewhat *booming*, and metro rail is in the conversation of a lot of developments; the medical campus touts its location along the rail line, various Sinatra investments in Mid-town have a lot to do with the rail, and there is finally seriously talk of extension both south and especially to UB up in Amherst. The rail line is taken into consideration with UB expansion, relocation of the med school downtown. There was talk of extension to the cobblestone district and the new solar city site. When the Bills get a new stadium, I would bet it will be downtown within access to metro rail.
So the answer is complex. Did it do what it was supposed to in terms of promoting investment in the 80s? No. Fast forward 35 years, is it an important part of the mix of the rapid recovery of Buffalo and plans for development the next decade or so? I would say absolutely. Cincinnati will have much more initial success with building this at this point in the 21st century than Buffalo could have when urban areas were dying in the 70s and 80s.
Has the Buffalo Rail line spurred long term development along or near the line? Debating this issue on the Cincinnati board which has a new Trolley going in a loop serving an area of downtown and north. Some new commercial development is being proposed but the long term prospects as to whether these businesses will stay there has to be considered.
Buffalo has had that rail line for decades but I never seem to read anything about its successes or failures. Would be interested in what the local people have to say about it.
I wouldn't say so. For a system that has been operating since 1985, it has stagnated and has not met its potential. I don't think it's the LRT that's the problem but rather the city's economy and flat-lining population. I think Urbanica hit the nail on the head. For the first time, a station entrance is being redone, solely because there is demand at that station as a result of economic opportunity (Allen-Medical).
A successful LRT system on the other hand would be in Minneapolis.
If there's existing rail rights-of-way that could be used for transit with modest investment in rail infrastructure, that would make some sense. Keep in mind, though, that building rail from the outer suburbs into the city center can also make those outer suburbs much more desirable, and encourage sprawl rather than contain it.
I agree with most of what you said, but I respectfully disagree with this. This is not the case in Minneapolis and actually, that city doesn't have much congestion.
I lived in Buffalo when they were discussing building the MetroRail. There were two alternatives: the subway under Main Street and a surface passenger rail line serving most of the city using the old Buffalo Belt Line ROW that the city already owned. Buffalo politicians, of course, had to have a subway because Toronto and NYC had subways.
For those who are unfamiliar with Buffalo's history, contrary to common myth, Buffalo didn't develop from a single, downtown core that grew steadily outward but grew from dispersed development. The pattern of development in the city was the central downtown business/residential area with clusters of residential/commercial/industrial development scattered within the city limits separated from downtown and other areas by suburban-like estates of the well-to-do (originally Johnson Park but eventually Lincoln Parkway) and rural undeveloped land probably used for agriculture. The site of the 1901 Pan American Exhibition, west and north of Delaware Park, for example, was said to have been one of the Rumsey family's cow pastures.
The Buffalo Belt Line RR was a local line built in the 19th century that connected these various businesses and their adjacent commercial/residential areas on the periphery of the city, the best known of which was Black Rock, which had been an independent village until 1854. The Belt Line largely encircled the most of the city with the exception of South Buffalo. In many areas of the city, especially in North Buffalo and on the East Side, it predated development in those areas. Until relatively recently, you could see remnants of it, especially in Black Rock and North Buffalo, with the numerous dark, sinister looking viaducts along abandoned rail lines like the one at Amherst and Tonawanda and the one that used to cover Elmwood Avenue south of Hinman Avenue.
By the 1960s, the Belt Line had been abandoned and the ROW owned by the city. The city could have had a truly usable rail system up and running in a much shorter time span for a fraction of the cost of the MetroRail, and could have easily then pitched to have surface rail extended out to Tonawanda and other suburbs. It was probably the city's biggest missed opportunity since WW II.
If I understand the Belt Line correctly, it still exists in North Buffalo and Black Rock as the tracks which run parallel to Linden. There is an existing station at Starin and Linden converted to a house, and I remember steps up to the tracks at Colvin and at Elmwood. I also remember an abandoned station at what we called "hidden city" near where Kohls is today, probably the station used during the Pan Am Exposition. The tracks and viaducts you are referring to ran along Taunton, and were the old Erie-Lackawanna and DL&W lines that were removed in the 1960s and 1970s. There are still active trains along Linden, and the viaduct on Delaware still says "New York Central" on its side.
If I understand the Belt Line correctly, it still exists in North Buffalo and Black Rock as the tracks which run parallel to Linden. There is an existing station at Starin and Linden converted to a house, and I remember steps up to the tracks at Colvin and at Elmwood. I also remember an abandoned station at what we called "hidden city" near where Kohls is today, probably the station used during the Pan Am Exposition. The tracks and viaducts you are referring to ran along Taunton, and were the old Erie-Lackawanna and DL&W lines that were removed in the 1960s and 1970s. There are still active trains along Linden, and the viaduct on Delaware still says "New York Central" on its side.
You're correct. The railroad and its abandoned stations/stairways/viaducts were just part of the fabric of the part of the city where you lived.
The rail lines in Buffalo are like a house that's been extensively remodeled over the decades with some lines abandoned and others sold to other RRs. I think that the rail line along the I-190 was either part of Belt Line or the Belt Line used its tracks until it split off for Tonawanda Street.
Part of the ROW in North Buffalo is still active and other parts have been sold off for development. The section along Hinman has become part of the shopping centers between Elmwood and Delaware, and the section around Colvin was sold for the new housing development built several years ago.
PS I always loved that station into a house. There's also a building that's long been an art studio or something across Nottingham Circle from the Historical Society, tucked in the corner formed by the I-198 ramp and Elmwood Avenue that may have been a station, too. It's made of the same kind of stone as the Starin/Linden station I think, and would have enabled Pan Am visitors to get off right at the NYS pavilion which is now the historical society building.
The rail line was built because there was a pile of Federal money available. It is pretty useless, I rode on it once when they built it and not since. Once I read about a downtown worker getting knifed and losing his eye I never went near it again. Lots of rowdy high school kids ride it after school and there is ZERO security. I never use public transportation NFTA here, its expensive, not convenient and doesn't go many places I need to go (ie. suburbs). I took a bus once a few years ago to pick up my car and it was a bit scary and I had to switch buses and it took forever. When I was a kid, my friends and I would take a bus downtown when there were many beautiful movie theaters and we would see a movie and have lunch. I wouldn't send my kid on a NFTA bus unless he had an armed bodyguard and even then I would be worried.
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