Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You must have not been outside your bubble, as retail is absolutely BOOMING all over TX. When I spent a week in South Florida same deal.
There are high rise mixed used developments with luxury stores every where i see. They are jammed every single day.
Bass Pro, Ross, TJmaxx, Homegoods, Fendi, you name it.
People with money are still shopping, but it is changing to a mixed use experience with spa's, coffee shops, services, and shopping in one. Not to mention loft apartments, etc.
Where population is increasing, national chains are usually the first to take advantage of the lack of retail and services by building generic retail strips with the same 5-10 stores along the interstate where they can snag the most traffic. If they are "booming" its because there was nothing else there to begin with, and new housing is still being built.
Those shops you list are NOT present in downtowns and city centers in Texas - Houston, Austin, and Fort Worth have zero department stores in their downtown area, and places like you listed are generally miles away from what would be considered a city's central business district.
And when you say these luxury retail are "everywhere" I think you mean that there are a handful just outside several of the largest cities. In Houston there was Memorial City, Sugarland, Woodlands, and maybe one more - all at least 15 or more miles from downtown. In the meantime the downtown Macy's closed several years ago, Sears near downtown went out of business, Sharpstown Mall basically closed and went away, and other malls are suffering from lack of business. Even Memorial City (now called City Center) had to be rebuilt from what was a mall that had been losing business. Many other malls in Houston, and other parts of Texas, have simply gone away.
You can say the same thing about Buffalo, with large retail concentrations in Amherst and Cheektowaga, all continuing to add stores and expand retail, even though nearby malls like Eastern Hills and Boulevard Mall are losing tenants.
But what I DO see in Buffalo and not in Texas are hundreds and hundreds of smaller businesses and storefronts operating in the city and suburbs. In Texas it is mainly chains along the highways.
Here in Jax we have the St Johns Town Center with 170 stores and more adding all the time. There is the typical turnover as trends change, but the place is almost fully leased. Its a nice mix of upscale (Nordstroms, Tiffany, Louis Vuiton) and regular stores like Dillards (my fav) Target, zillion restaurants. I love the open air instead of the sterile enclosed malls of the northeast. There are many, many small centers with local stores. We have the usual chains Target, Walmart, Ross, Belks. Retail depends on the economic health of the area. Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse frequently make the list of poorest cities, so of course the retail environment is less robust. Buffalo, for years, was bailed out by Canadian shoppers, which I used to see by the 1000's in the Galleria. Some stores had upwards of 80% Canadian customers. The middle and upper class exodus in the area has consequences and a retail wasteland is one of them.
Boulevard Mall, Eastern Hills, Como Park, Seneca Mall, Summit Park Mall, Northtown Plaza and McKinley are either gone or being "reimagined"
........ Retail depends on the economic health of the area. Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse frequently make the list of poorest cities, so of course the retail environment is less robust. Buffalo, for years, was bailed out by Canadian shoppers, which I used to see by the 1000's in the Galleria. Some stores had upwards of 80% Canadian customers. The middle and upper class exodus in the area has consequences and a retail wasteland is one of them.
Boulevard Mall, Eastern Hills, Como Park, Seneca Mall, Summit Park Mall, Northtown Plaza and McKinley are either gone or being "reimagined"
I agree.
Rochester's "downtown" was once a thriving area, but as the area initially grew, with the new residents moving to the suburbs, where there was room to build homes, and Wilmorite Corporation began to build more malls than necessary, the downtown area stumbled. Then as Kodak, Xerox, and General Motors began to shut down operations, the area began to shrink, and retail shrank along with it. Factor in the rise of online shopping, which then got a boost when Covid hit, and the urban areas began to slide....
Here in Jax we have the St Johns Town Center with 170 stores and more adding all the time. There is the typical turnover as trends change, but the place is almost fully leased. Its a nice mix of upscale (Nordstroms, Tiffany, Louis Vuiton) and regular stores like Dillards (my fav) Target, zillion restaurants. I love the open air instead of the sterile enclosed malls of the northeast. There are many, many small centers with local stores. We have the usual chains Target, Walmart, Ross, Belks. Retail depends on the economic health of the area. Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse frequently make the list of poorest cities, so of course the retail environment is less robust. Buffalo, for years, was bailed out by Canadian shoppers, which I used to see by the 1000's in the Galleria. Some stores had upwards of 80% Canadian customers. The middle and upper class exodus in the area has consequences and a retail wasteland is one of them.
Boulevard Mall, Eastern Hills, Como Park, Seneca Mall, Summit Park Mall, Northtown Plaza and McKinley are either gone or being "reimagined"
Is this actually Downtown or a lifestyle center that offers housing as well? Never mind, it looks like it is within the “city”, but not Downtown.
There is open shopping in the Northeast, as Township 5 in Camillus outside of Syracuse is a lifestyle center with shopping and apartments.
There are other options just outside of Upstate NY cities or in the case of Syracuse even within the city as well.
Those cities make the poorest cities list because they are small in land size in comparison to cities that can annex unincorporated land/communities or in the case of Jacksonville, are essentially coterminous with Duval County. So, the comparison isn’t necessarily apples to oranges, as if we left all cities at their 1940-1950 city limits like those 3 cities, they would look different even now.
Is this actually Downtown or a lifestyle center that offers housing as well? Never mind, it looks like it is within the “city”, but not Downtown.
There is open shopping in the Northeast, as Township 5 in Camillus outside of Syracuse is a lifestyle center with shopping and apartments.
There are other options just outside of Upstate NY cities or in the case of Syracuse even within the city as well.
Those cities make the poorest cities list because they are small in land size in comparison to cities that can annex unincorporated land/communities or in the case of Jacksonville, are essentially coterminous with Duval County. So, the comparison isn’t necessarily apples to oranges, as if we left all cities at their 1940-1950 city limits like those 3 cities, they would look different even now.
This thread is about the City of Buffalo, not Erie County. Not Metro areas, but actual cities and not suburbs and surrounding areas. You point being that they did not annex other areas so they make the list of poorer cities. By bringing up annexation you are obfuscating the issue of poverty in those cities. Buffalo has its own Mayor and Government which differs from Erie County.
St Johns Town Center offers many apartments, if I had to guess at least 500-1000 plus 4 hotels.
This thread is about the City of Buffalo, not Erie County. Not Metro areas, but actual cities and not suburbs and surrounding areas. You point being that they did not annex other areas so they make the list of poorer cities. By bringing up annexation you are obfuscating the issue of poverty in those cities. Buffalo has its own Mayor and Government which differs from Erie County.
St Johns Town Center offers many apartments, if I had to guess at least 500-1000 plus 4 hotels.
No, my mentioning of annexation is to show that such lists do not take differences between cities into account. Meaning, they aren’t exactly tit for tat or are apples to oranges comparisons.
I thought that the thread was about retail in the city. That lifestyle center in Jacksonville, which again is essentially the same as Duval County, appears to be in a location that would be similar to being located in say Amherst or Hamburg in the Buffalo area. So, even using that example illustrates the difference in terms of comparing different cities, that isn’t accounted for. Buffalo is 40 square miles versus 747 square miles for Jacksonville.
As for the topic, it really goes back to what has already been mentioned by multiple posters.
A mix of policies that incentive suburbanization and priority of investments towards roads versus other modes of getting araond (parking is a nightmare for Buffalo's downtown as more and more people opted to arrive by car that needed parking, but then turning large amounts of land to be parking also makes downtown lose what makes it unique among shopping centers so why go?).
Then more general regional stuff like inventions (thanks to Buffalo!) that made the cheap and undeveloped lands of hotter climates tolerable during summer months, and loss of high-paying industrial jobs, and on top of that, the pipeline of wealth transference via a very lopsided federal revenue/federal spending ratio for NYS that has existed for quite a while.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-15-2021 at 07:20 AM..
A mix of policies that incentive suburbanization and priority of investments towards roads versus other modes of getting araond (parking is a nightmare for Buffalo's downtown as more and more people opted to arrive by car that needed parking, but then turning large amounts of land to be parking also makes downtown lose what makes it unique among shopping centers so why go?).
Then more general regional stuff like inventions (thanks to Buffalo!) that made the cheap and undeveloped lands of hotter climates tolerable during summer months, and loss of high-paying industrial jobs, and on top of that, the pipeline of wealth transference via a very lopsided federal revenue/federal spending ratio for NYS that has existed for quite a while.
Are you saying that there aren't incentives for the city? What about the light rail, and all the state investments in the city?
If the invention of air conditioning is holding Buffalo back, what about NYC, Boston, Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis/ All cities much larger
You are missing the point that ckhthankgod was making. Many cities in the south and midwest have the ability to annex nearby suburban areas, adding both population and land area. When I lived in Lincoln, NB in the mid 1970s, Lincoln had a population of about 70k. I lived at the edge of the city limits; across the street -- outside the city limits -- some people had enough acreage to keep horses. Today, Lincoln's population is about 280k and the area where I used to live is now a couple of miles inside the city limits. It's all low or mid density suburban housing and commercial develop within the city.
After New York annexed Brooklyn back in the 1890s, the NYS legislature prohibited municipal annexations. The last time Buffalo annexed a nearby area to increase its population and land area was about 1854 when it annexed the village of Black Rock. If Buffalo annexed Tonawanda south of Sheridan Drive, Amherst and Cheektowaga south and/or west of I-290 and I-90, and West Seneca north and west of I-90 since 1980, think about how much Buffalo's population would gain. Think how much adding that territory would improve Buffalo's population stats vis-a-vis a city like Lincoln, NB or even Houston, TX.
I believe that back in the day, these smaller municipalities wanted to be annexed so they could provide water, sewers, etc to it's people.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
