Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Outside of Florida those states don't have the population NY has either so they shouldn't have anywhere near the public jobs.
NY has 2x's the population of Georgia & NC, 3x's more than Missouri & Tennessee, 4x's more than SC, Kentucky, Alabama & Louisiana and 7x's more than Mississippi & Arkansas. I'd love to see the percentage of public sector positions vs total citizens stat, I think the %'s would be a lot closer than what you believe.
That's really insignificant as NYC is a part of NY & they have their fair share (in reality maybe more) of public employees.
NYC (not metro area as many of those in the NYC metro are actually in NJ) has a population of 8.4 million ........... that leaves over 11 million not inside of NYC's borders, which is still larger than any of the states mentioned.
I would love to, but the problems is that there are idiots who don't think that we have tax problems, which is the root of the problem. Those idiots not only post here, but are elected to office, so there really isn't much that smarter folks can do except say "see you later" to Buffalo, and many do.
Buffalo has a real well known repellent toward weak individuals. People who cant handle the cold, people who cry about taxes, etc. Once all these individuals leave Buffalo will be all the better for it. Buffalo is not responsable for state wide taxation laws so it is foolish to brand Buffalo itself with the blame for higher taxes. Regardless of the current tax rate, many Buffalonians are very happy where they are with some of the best education, safest suburbs and some of the best values when purchasing a home nation wide.
I think you meant "worst" instead of best, as Buffalo only graduates 51% of high schoolers, NY as a whole has a lower graduation rate than the poorest southern states like Arkansas, Mississippi, and Louisiana.
Most people who raise a family will live in the suburbs and not downtown Buffalo as its not as cohesive to raising a family.
Also, I think grouping together NY state as a whole isn't reflective of the Buffalo area and leads people into believing wrong information.
When posting an opposing position its important to consider all the factors, not limited information that doesn't cover an entire area.
In this article, the city is very low at 46% but if you also read the Williamsville School District has a rate of 94% so your blanket statement of lumping NY state together is false.
It's clear that its dependent on where you live and the schools within that area. I don't believe anyone has disputed your information regarding downtown Buffalo but we do disagree that you can't use a 46% or 50% number for the entire state.
You need to consider all the factors.
Here is another link for you. Again, downtown Buffalo is at 52% while the entire state as a whole is 70%. Also, if you notice they state many other districts that have a much higher percentage that the state average.
Buffalo High School Graduation Rate Increases (http://www.districtadministration.com/newssummary.aspx?postid=52793 - broken link)
Quote:
In Erie and Niagara counties, 34 school district were above the state average, and just four — Buffalo, Lake Shore, Lackawanna and Niagara Falls — fell below that mark.
The Iroquois School District had the highest local graduation rate at 95 percent. Clarence, East Aurora, Eden, North Collins, Orchard Park, Williamsville and Barker also were at or above 90 percent.
Great! So the 300,000 people that left are weaker than you, macho-man?
Toughness is measured by your ability to survive cold winters and pay high taxes? Awesome!
Buffalo is actually a repellent to those with an IQ over 65.
Because this population decline has been soooo great for Buffalo.
I think you meant "worst" instead of best, as Buffalo only graduates 51% of high schoolers, NY as a whole has a lower graduation rate than the poorest southern states like Arkansas, Mississippi, and Louisiana.
"Buffalo is actually a repellent to those with an IQ over 65."
Moderator cut: argumentative
Also feel free to respond to the evidence provided by Summer regarding the ACTUAL graduation statistics.
Last edited by bellafinzi; 10-20-2009 at 05:32 PM..
I'm wary of all Cost of Living calculators. Before we moved we looked into a bunch of different online cost of living calculators and they all said that living here (suburbs of Denver/Boulder) was more expensive. My job even gave me a cost of living increase based on their stats. But the reality is almost everything here is cheaper. Some things are a lot cheaper (taxes) other things just a little (cable). But the $10 here or $50 there really adds up. We definitely are better off financially here. I know someone will post some reply saying houses are expensive. They're really not much more and the housing payments ended up being less when taxes are calculated in. I think these calculators are flawed but with that being said I think they can give a general idea as to the cost of an area but unless the difference is outrageous I don't think anyone should take them seriously when considering a huge move.
No matter where you live, 80% of non-discretionary living expenses are housing and taxes. Everything else - food, clothing, utilities - make up the other 20% or less.
So, the true measure of any area's relative affordability is going to largely be determined by the market rate of housing plus state and local income and property taxes. Small differences in food, utilities, etc. do not add up to that much.
I don't give much credibility to cost-of-living calculators either. My concern is that they do not have up-to-date data that truly reflects housing costs, and there are undoubtedly some lifestyle assumptions built into the calculator that may or may not apply.
The biggest factor in most peoples' financial well-being (or lack thereof) is discipline when it comes to discretionary spending PLUS choosing to live in a dwelling that they can truly afford.
Buffalo is in the unique position of having very low cost market-rate housing but high local taxes. As others have said, there is a somewhat of a "canceling out" effect that happens because of this, if only if you look at it from a cash-flow basis. When seen from investor's point of view, someone with a mortgage has an extra burden due to the fact that more of the mortgage payment is going to taxes and not into equity or lowering the principal.
All of that being said, a smart money manager will advise a homeowner to look at their primary residence as a nice place to live, not as an investment, because it ultimately leads to disappointment. Invest in property you don't plan to live in.
Last edited by UpstaterInBklyn; 10-20-2009 at 01:52 PM..
I think both sides of this argument are out of line on a lot of things. I have nothing to add to this pointless ranting except one thing... people need to stop using pointless facts to prove an argument. Pulling city, metro, state, and sometimes even north eastern stats to prove a point interchangeably is so incredibly annoying. Specify when possible.
Last edited by BuffaloLight; 10-20-2009 at 03:57 PM..
Also feel free to respond to the evidence provided by Summer regarding the ACTUAL graduation statistics.
Why would I refute Summer? She was accurate. I posted how the city is, she posted the suburbs. Stop looking for a fight where there isn't one.
And actually, by the time I saw the writing on the wall and really started hating Buffalo I was 2.5 years into my studies, to late to transfer away. Either way, I am set to graduate with Latin Honors, so I didn't want to screw that up.
Quote:
Pulling city, metro, state, and sometimes even north eastern stats to prove a point interchangeably is so incredibly annoying. Specify when possible.
I agree, that is why I am always very clear which statistic I am posting, and only post pertinent data. If someone is asking about living in Buffalo, I'll say the graduation rate is 51%, if they say Amherst, it's 88%.
Quote:
No matter where you live, 80% of non-discretionary living expenses are housing and taxes.
I would bet that is fairly accurate. The difference is that 80% of an average income in NYC will get you a one bedroom condo in Manhattan, in Buffalo it will get you a 50 year old 1200 square foot detached house, in Oklahoma City it will get you a 10 year old 2000 square foot home.
That's an interesting post Upstater. I think you were right on the money.
Last edited by bellafinzi; 10-20-2009 at 05:34 PM..
That's a good point that you made but you are pointing your finger in the wrong direction. Do you even know what the unemployment rate is in your own state of South Carolina? NY's unemployment rate is 8.8% & Buffalo's is 8.4%, not great but a lot better than many areas during this tough economic stretch. On the other hand, the Carolina's, Georgia, Florida & Tennessee all have a rate still in the double digits. I wonder how many former NY's that have moved to these states thinking it was a greener pasture are now stuck there because they are out of work & broke? I wonder how many have gone through foreclosure in the last 18 months?
Buffalo metro has many affluent areas. To claim it does not shows either your complete lack of knowledge of the current make up of the area or you are blinded by your dislike.
Ever been to Dallas? Houston? Austin? Each of these cities have neighborhoods split along racial lines. In fact the city of Dallas is pretty much split in half ..... north side for whites, south side for minorities.
Yes, unemployment here was 11.5% in August, and is falling slightly every month. Yes, there's an unemployment problem, here, as well as others. Studies and forecasts are showing SC and other states will have recovered by 2011 or so. Can't say the same for WNY, MI, OH, and other states/regions which will take longer to come around. MI, WNY, and several other places (SoCal, anyone?), will take 5+ years to recover.
Wait 'til Chrysler and GM go under, next year.
Having highlighted several recent posts to City-Data for the cities of Columbia and Greenville/Spartanburg, people STILL are looking at this state for relocation. 6 months ago I would have called them crazy to consider moving to here, yet the inquiries from folks from the NE and Upper Midwest about SC indicate people are still moving out of some of those states, despite the economy. I find it hard to believe people are still moving to Greenville, sans job, and we're still in the middle of an economic crisis in ths country, but to each their own. Typical post will say, "Hubby and I have been here two weeks, and are ready to look for a job, ...". That was doable 2 or 3 years ago; I have no clue how people are getting away with this, now.
The only explanation I can come up with is they are optimistic, which is more than I can say for soem of my family who live in Buffalo and Rochester.
Charlotte is in pretty bad shape, and I'm aware that's where a lot of folks have ended up after leaving Upstate. York Cty., SC, had a high foreclosure rate until recently (it's basically a big suburb of Charlotte), but the housing crisis really didn't hit here much in SC. Nobody I know personally, from here or out of state living here, has lost their house, in fact the only foreclosures I'm aware of in this state (which has mostly affordable housing) have been in the lower-end homes ($100K or so), unlike some places (MI, CA, AZ, NV, NC etc.).
One thing folks here forget is the population of this state has grown 25% in 20 years, in fact Greenville Cty. had 10K people moving in every year for several years.
Contrast this with Buffalo; 200K++ residents lost from Erie Cty. alone since 1970:
Not making this into an argument, just stating facts. Had folks in the Buffalo/Niagara metro NOT moved away, more folks there would be on welfare, more would be unemployed, etc. More highly skilled, educated, etc., folks would be competing for scarce jobs, pushing less skilled, experienced, and educated folks out of the job market.
Same goes for Rochester.
-
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
